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The Stones Comprising Stonehenge


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#61 kevin.b

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 23:52

View PostAnew, on 25 October 2006, 23:30, said:

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If five stones were encased in a wheel, with a slight slip allowed, would three always be influenced by gravity, whilst two were counter influenced?
Ah, you have been thinking.

That's called a perpetual motion device, and some fine minds have had a go at those.  But it always turned out that friction took a piece of every transaction... and eventually it was understood that this was by a law, (second, thermodynamics), of nature.  The machines would always stop.

But did they have people peddling the thing as well?
The machine on its own would stop, but the input of the peddlers would keep it going, once in motion, a minimal input would be required to maintain motion, gravity would always assist?
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#62 Anew

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 00:30

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But did they have people peddling the thing as well?
The machine on its own would stop, but the input of the peddlers would keep it going, once in motion, a minimal input would be required to maintain motion, gravity would always assist?
Kevin
You could set it up so that it would start quickly... with one stone about to cross to the forward... the pedalers would have to step lively....

Think about it like bicycling down a hill.  It's effortless.  But if you have to climb the next one, you'll be winded at the top -- and that's with shifting your weight.  These machines can't create energy, it's a matter of how long they can hold on to what they began with.

#63 stonecarver

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:12

Ok guys.... Assuming they COULD have devised some system for moving the stones... whether it be by land or by sea, whether by sledge, roller, or Other device... (nobody here seems to doubt that they Could have devised a system)...it was only in the 20th century that Thomas decided the bluestones might be from Wales...

What I find Very interesting, is that earliest historical account of the stones at Stonehenge, says that they came from Ireland !

The account given by Galfridus Monemutensis in his Historia Regium Britanniae c1136 states that the ancient Britons went to Ireland to seize "The Giant's Round" (Stonehenge) from Mount Killarus, and brought it back and set it up in Wiltshire.... where it still stands today...

Now, archaeology deals with facts (hopefully), but it's interesting that the earliest account we have suggests that the stones come, not from Wales, but from Ireland... where there are indeeed types of 'bluestone' which archaeologists have confused with Welsh bluestones...

#64 kevin.b

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 17:42

http://www.megalitho.../show/image/236
This is reputed to be the centre point of Ireland, it would be interesting to triangulate this point with stone henge and other points?
Are there any bluestones near this hill in Ireland.
If they origonated in Africa, are there any sites in Africa where this type of stone can befound?
Interesting that it has a trig point on it, I keep finding these very perfectly positioned at many megalithic sites?

Kevin

#65 Anew

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 20:26

View Poststonecarver, on 26 October 2006, 5:12, said:

Ok guys.... Assuming they COULD have devised some system for moving the stones... whether it be by land or by sea, whether by sledge, roller, or Other device... (nobody here seems to doubt that they Could have devised a system)...it was only in the 20th century that Thomas decided the bluestones might be from Wales...

What I find Very interesting, is that earliest historical account of the stones at Stonehenge, says that they came from Ireland !

The account given by Galfridus Monemutensis in his Historia Regium Britanniae c1136 states that the ancient Britons went to Ireland to seize "The Giant's Round" (Stonehenge) from Mount Killarus, and brought it back and set it up in Wiltshire.... where it still stands today...

Now, archaeology deals with facts (hopefully), but it's interesting that the earliest account we have suggests that the stones come, not from Wales, but from Ireland... where there are indeeed types of 'bluestone' which archaeologists have confused with Welsh bluestones...

Thief! Put it Back.


Galfridus Monemutensis, (pen name of Geoffrey of Monmouth), wrote when the trail was some 3,000 years cold. He was quite a character in his own right, (Wikipedia on Geoffrey of Monmouth), from which I quote:

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Next was Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain), the work best known to modern readers. It purports to relate the history of Britain, from its first settlement by Brutus, a descendant of the Trojan hero Aeneas, to the death of Cadwallader in the 7th century, taking in Julius Caesar's invasions of Britain, two kings, Leir and Cymbeline, later immortalised by Shakespeare, and one of the earliest developed narratives of King Arthur. Geoffrey claims to have translated it from an ancient book written in Welsh, although few take this claim seriously. Much of it is based on the Historia Britonum, a 9th century Welsh-Latin historical compilation, Bede's Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum and Gildas's 6th century polemic De Excidio Britanniae, expanded with material from Roman histories, Welsh legend, genealogical tracts, and Geoffrey's own imagination.[4]It contains little trustworthy historical fact, and many scholars are tempted to agree with William of Newburgh, who wrote around 1190 that "it is quite clear that everything this man wrote about Arthur and his successors, or indeed about his predecessors from Vortigern onwards, was made up, partly by himself and partly by others, either from an inordinate love of lying, or for the sake of pleasing the Britons."
It's not that there isn't dolorite in Ireland.  But Stonehenge was built over hundreds of years, as the evidence would have it; and the sarsens pretty clearly came from nearby.  Bluestone of Irish origin is possible, but of the eleven tested so far, all have been close matches to the Preselian.

Could you introduce a report saying otherwise?

#66 kevin.b

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 21:25

Organ pipes , namibia, dont know why, but I reckon they be them.
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#67 Anew

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 09:59

This, again, will probably be familiar to several members: Wikipedia on the Boscombe Bowmen & Wessex Archaeology on the Boscombe Bowmen

Burials have recently been found and analysed that indicate people familiar, and contemporary with, Stonehenge had been born in either Wales or the Lake District; leaving there, probably, before the age of 9.  Seven individuals, several of whom appear to have been related, were buried together with apparent honor in the vicinity of the temple.

If I might speculate, it seems possible that Pembrokeshire and the peninsula were, in their view, safer than the Salisbury plain.  It may have been a perferred place for the children.



Another prominent area burial of the time was that of the Amesbury Archer.  Wikipedia on the Amesbury Archer & Wessex Archaeology on the Amesbury Archer

#68 Anew

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Posted 1 November 2006 - 10:19

It may be a minor point, but the Avenue at Stonehenge wasn't built until after the stones were in place -- more of a finishing touch.  It may have been built over the route, (any or all of), the stones had taken from the Avon.

#69 stonecarver

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 20:27

Information of the most recent research regarding the 'bluestones' of Stonehenge can be found here:-

http://www.netcomuk....uestones59.html

This report casts serious doubt on the circumstantial evidence for the 'bluestones' coming from Wales, glaciation appears to be the most likely solution, according to the geological and archaeological evidence currently available.

#70 henge

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 16:03

I don't want to spoil the party but, the 'myth' of the bluestones coming from Ireland is easy to explain.

With the bluestones coming in via a sea voyage, still true for any ship coming into port - they came in from simply 'overseas' and if most trade was being imported from Ireland, then it would be assumed or a handed down (distorted) account of their origin, especially by the time the bluestones reached Stonehenge.

#71 Maju

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 18:51

Just a couple of less central comments:

1. Why dolerite? Not sure exactly but this stone was among the favorites for ritual axes in several parts of the continent in the Chalcolithic period (in some places they also used copper and even gold for such prestige objects). One of these places was Brittany and nearby areas of France, just the other side of the channel (see this example).

2. Navigation abilities? For sure: in that period Iberia (at least) was being flooded with imports from such distant places as the Baltic (amber) and uncertain parts of Africa (ivory, ostrich eggshell). The very spread of Megalithism was mostly along sea shores (stormy Atlantic shores first of all) and is sometimes tentatively associated to cod fishing. Ocean sailing abilities were surely largely lost with the arrival of Indo-Europeans (Celts): against popular belief there's no evidence whatsoever of marine contacts between Iberian and British Celts, the still visible cultural contacts were pre-Celtic, not Celtic (Iberian Celts never adopted Druidism nor La Tène culture, for example, because they became isolated by land from France c. 600 BCE). But as late as the final Bronze Age (c. 1300-800 BCE) there were important economic exchanges between the British Islands and the Iberian peninsula (and Atlantic France, and as far as Cyprus and Denmark) though - exchanges that can't still be attributed to Phoenicians (archaeologically only dated in Gadir since the 8th century BCE), much less to Greeks (in the Dark Ages).

#72 stonehenge observatory

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Posted 22 June 2008 - 16:09

View Posthenge, on 14 January 2008, 17:03, said:

I don't want to spoil the party but, the 'myth' of the bluestones coming from Ireland is easy to explain.

With the bluestones coming in via a sea voyage, still true for any ship coming into port - they came in from simply 'overseas' and if most trade was being imported from Ireland, then it would be assumed or a handed down (distorted) account of their origin, especially by the time the bluestones reached Stonehenge.

There are plenty of myths surrounding the site that originate from the mouths and pens of more reputable sources than Geoffrey of Monmouth. For some reason archaeologists are far more interested in proving from how and where the Bluestones came than why anyone would choose Stonehenge as a location in the first place (which is probably why it invites suggestions from amatuers like me!). You might be interested in my latest press release at http://www.louistalb...ge/article2.htm



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