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Apulian Menhir Damaged


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#1 Diego

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Posted 2 September 2006 - 15:20

One of the four standing stones of the so-called "Sovereto-Bitonto" alignment, that we visited back in 2000 and 2004, has been pulled down by vandals. The menhir is located in Bosco della Ginestra, near Terlizzi (Bari), in Apulia, the region forming the "heel" of boot-shaped Italy.

The fact was reported to Italian authorities last July 16th by the local archaeology group "Archaia" and the association "Pro Loco" in Terlizzi. The whole alignment of standing stones is heavily threatened by local traffic since the Terlizzi mayor decided last year to transform a secondary dirt lane - the stones are located along it - into an asphalt road. In January 2006 various groups informed the authorities that the whole area was compromised and the standing stones were threatened by passing vehicles. Then, the Archaeological Superintendence sent a letter to Terlizzi mayor, asking him to start a project to protect the standing stones. But no action was taken and after a few months, it was too late.

The 2.5m tall menhir was probably pulled off using a heavy vehicle. All groups involved are complaining the inertia of Terlizzi mayor and his representatives and they hope more serious actions will be taken to protect the remaining stones.

The menhir as we saw in 2000:
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The stone after the road works in 2005 (image courtesy Alfredo Caggianelli):
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What is left today (image courtesy Alfredo Caggianelli):
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#2 Stone Lover

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Posted 4 September 2006 - 18:54

It breaks my heart to see and hear of vandalism like this.  Good grief, you'd think they had better things to do!  

I hope the situation can be resolved and the stone(s) will become protected somehow, although it looks like the damage is done at this site.  What a shame. :(
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#3 Nigel

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Posted 5 September 2006 - 08:26

That's very sad Diego. So what IS the status of them, do they have any level of protection?

And what's that traffic arrow ????  Surely that's not legal?

#4 Cakes

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 04:52

View PostDiego, on 2 September 2006, 15:20, said:

One of the four standing stones... has been pulled down by vandals.

and no one saw fit to put it upright? Y'all left it down, therefore encouraging further abuse? people gotta stop crying that everyone else isn't doing a good enough job and we gotta start actually stepping in, Folks.

#5 Diego

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 23:31

View PostCakes, on 12 December 2006, 4:52, said:

people gotta stop crying that everyone else isn't doing a good enough job and we gotta start actually stepping in, Folks.
Hi Cakes,
I saw from your posts that you are both a faithful supporter in what heritage agencies are doing to preserve and restore the ancient monuments, and an ardent believer of personal initiatives to save the damaged stones. Someone may see this as a contradiction.

I don't know if you are aware that - at least in Italy - it is strictly forbidden even to touch a damaged monument. That kind of initiative is up to the local archaeology superintendence. If you'd like to put a fallen standing stone back in place, you are making a crime, at least in my country - unless of course you are a professional archaeologist officially appointed to perform the restoration. And I believe that is the same almost everywhere.

I can also suggest that a nicer tone of your replies would be much appreciated - laying down the law is not always the best approach to a discussion.

#6 Cakes

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 04:44

As the moderator of this forum, I have edited the intro of your message that was of no interest to other forum users. If you'd like to express your divergence of opinions on personal issues, please send us a PM or an e-mail message. Regarding your post on Solstice, what you called a "a petty dictator's right" was in fact a simple antispam protection. We are glad you offered an in-depth answer to the issue raised on this thread, but we must remind you that this forum exists because we created, maintained and paid for it. You are our guest, so please behave accordingly.
BTW - Merry Christmas

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You are correct in wondering if I knew that righting the stone would be thought a crime. I hadn't considered that at all, I guess i think of this world as my own.. and I will acknowledge that I, personally, would have no guilty conscience from putting the stone in place some night while the "officials" were snug in bed>>>and given their response to it's downing, I doubt they would have pursued the issue were it to be righted. I certainly cannot advise anyone to do what they consider to be wrong, however. And working within the present hierarchy may be quite do-able.

here's a few ideas:

First, find out exactly who DOES have the power to approve moving the stone (or approve whatever project you have in mind). You specified that it is the "local archaeology superintendence" who must show initiative.

Whoever the responsible party is, they are most likely a member of our government, and as such, is our employee. Let us begin to help them to accomplish the necessary goals. Call them. Explore the issue.

You said that after the local archaeology superintendence is on board with the program, we need a "professional archaeologist". Perhaps the superintendence can serve in that capacity. Perhaps they are not accustommed to doing so. Perhaps they are busy and someone else can be found that will be able to accomplish our goals in a more timely manner. Find out who does (or can) serve in that capacity. If there is already a specific person appointed to that capacity, then get their name and maybe ask (or research) whether the position can be filled by anyone who happens to be a "professional". I imagine the universities are full of professional archaeologists. And/or perhaps the local preservation society has a member who holds a doctorate.

Next, you said that our professional archaeologist needs official approval to begin work. Let us find out from whom such an approval can come. Who issues the orders? There may even be more than one person who can issue such appointments. Contact them. Find out if they are aware of the problem (the downed stone, etc.). Find out what their present position is; do they need further documentation of the damage in order to act? Are they awaiting a call back from the professional archaeologist already? Are they even aware of the project? Are they aware but have yet to act on it? Whatever the staus is, let us address the next step. Provide them with the documentation if they need it. Or perhaps you need to put in a follow-up call to the expert they have appointed or that they hope to appoint. <<schedule a meeting with this person if you need to; perhaps you will need to transfer documentation from one party to another. Or give them a ride to the site. A professional university employee may indefinately postpone a trip to the far countryside if left to their own devices but may accept and keep an appointment from you to ride down together. If the official(s) are aware of the project but have yet to act on it, find out when you can call back for an update. And follow-up! Do it as many times as it needs to be done. If their self imposed deadline expires, ask more questions..ask them if something came up...

of course if we actually were to find someone who seems unable (or even apparently unwilling) to act, then we can go to their superior, and then we repeat the above process i.e. find out what that person needs in order to help with this project.

and we can even go to their superior...

A small town mayor may be overjoyed to be presented with a workable plan. Like a letter from a doctorate holder/university teacher that says they have surveyed the problem and that there is a method available to solve the problem. Perhaps the solution would involve cushioned straps and a backhoe (a type of tractor). I know how to move timber but I personally am inexperienced with rock to date. I do know that a backhoe (with operator) is available here for $200 USD per day. and I know that a few of my neighbors own one. lots of country folks do. One may even be available to help without the need for any cash exchanging hands  

Did you have any ideas about how to protect the stone from the roadway? I do not know if there is a customary method in your area but I can offer these thoughts>>concrete is less than $2 a bag here if one desired a guardrail. Or, alternatively, timber can be harvested here off of government land in 6 foot lengths for $10 a cord (4 feet by 4 feet by 8 feet worths). Post holes can be dug by hand in less than 15 minutes with a hand auger so a wooden guardrail made from side by side posts would not be out of the question and it would have significant structural integrity.

so, that's a few ideas on how the problem could have been solved. Perhaps future situations could benefit from our analyzation of this occurence. And I think a guardrail may still be a good idea for this site although I have not been there to see the terrain. opinions from onsite observers would be valuable. Offhand, it seems a guardrail would make deliberate motored access more difficult and help prevent inadvertent forays from swerving autos as well.

re future projects: if anyone ever wanted to collaborate with me while drafting letters or planning what to say at meetings with officials, I'd be glad to try to help-
:)



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