80 replies to this topic

[Nigel]

Anew - more Silbaby stuff (in case you haven't seen it)
http://www.avebury-w...uk/silbaby.html

An urn!

[Anew]

Nigel, on 1 December 2006, 3:02, said:

Anew - more Silbaby stuff (in case you haven't seen it)
http://www.avebury-w...uk/silbaby.html

An urn!

Wonderful to consider, but I think Mr. Stukeley overextended on this.  My reading is that he assumed an urn, which the Romans would have grabbed up as they cut through, "the tump in the middle".  As the arials, and your own observation, are persuasive that the perimeter of the hill remains intact... I don't know what quite to make of the wonderfully Tolkienesque maps.  They are, at least in part, fanciful -- as you noted in another forum, the Sanctuary is round.  It could be that after Silbaby/Weedon became 'the cut-through barrow' in this play, it was overlooked; and hence spared.

A couple questions re my pet idea:
> Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up?
> Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?

[Pete G]

Anew, on 1 December 2006, 9:32, said:

Nigel, on 1 December 2006, 3:02, said:

Anew - more Silbaby stuff (in case you haven't seen it)
http://www.avebury-w...uk/silbaby.html

An urn!

Wonderful to consider, but I think Mr. Stukeley overextended on this.  My reading is that he assumed an urn, which the Romans would have grabbed up as they cut through, "the tump in the middle".  As the arials, and your own observation, are persuasive that the perimeter of the hill remains intact... I don't know what quite to make of the wonderfully Tolkienesque maps.  They are, at least in part, fanciful -- as you noted in another forum, the Sanctuary is round.  It could be that after Silbaby/Weedon became 'the cut-through barrow' in this play, it was overlooked; and hence spared.

A couple questions re my pet idea:
> Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up?
> Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?

The barrow that Stukeley noted was a saucer barow, there is a report of its excavation on my cd rom.
It is 100 yards away from Silbaby on the left of the road towards Marlborough.
From Marlborough Mount two longbarrows would have been visible. Manton and White barrow at Lockeridge.
PeteG

[Nigel]

A couple questions re my pet idea:
> Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up?
> Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?
[/quote]

wonderfully Tolkienesque maps.

How very true!

They are, at least in part, fanciful -- as you noted in another forum, the Sanctuary is round.

Indeed. Our William was a very bad man,  making it look like the head of a snake in order to bolster his pro-Christian serpenty theory. Yet his observation and draughtsmanship were also heroic.

He has been written off as a liar over the existence of the Beckhampton Avenue, yet recently up it pops.
It would be one for the irony box if he turned out to be right about Silbaby as well.

Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up? Do you mean WKLB?
What spoil?

Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?

Would the Sanctuary do?!
I reckon, but for some trees, you could see Merlin's Mount from the Sanctuary's edge - and from the centre of it if you were elevated above it a few feet, such as on top of a roof. We need an active dowser with flags, a step ladder and binoculars - but we'd need to keep him off the "magic" pills for long enough.

[Anew]

Anew, on 1 December 2006, 4:32, said:

... I think Mr. Stukeley overextended on this.  My reading is that he assumed an urn ...

Pete G, on 1 December 2006, 8:20, said:

The barrow that Stukeley noted was a saucer barow, there is a report of its excavation on my cd rom.
It is 100 yards away from Silbaby on the left of the road towards Marlborough.
From Marlborough Mount two longbarrows would have been visible. Manton and White barrow at Lockeridge.
PeteG

Nigel, on 1 December 2006, 8:21, said:

Quote

A couple questions re my pet idea:
> Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up?
> Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?

wonderfully Tolkienesque maps.

How very true!

They are, at least in part, fanciful -- as you noted in another forum, the Sanctuary is round.

Indeed. Our William was a very bad man,  making it look like the head of a snake in order to bolster his pro-Christian serpenty theory. Yet his observation and draughtsmanship were also heroic.

He has been written off as a liar over the existence of the Beckhampton Avenue, yet recently up it pops.
It would be one for the irony box if he turned out to be right about Silbaby as well.

Would anyone know where the spoil from the clearance of WKLB wound up? Do you mean WKLB?
What spoil?

Would anyone know of a significant barrow or lost barrow in the viewshed of "Merlin's Mount" in Marlborough?

Would the Sanctuary do?!
I reckon, but for some trees, you could see Merlin's Mount from the Sanctuary's edge - and from the centre of it if you were elevated above it a few feet, such as on top of a roof. We need an active dowser with flags, a step ladder and binoculars - but we'd need to keep him off the "magic" pills for long enough.

My apologies, William: you were a bad man, but I am worse.  I'm willing to believe the saucer-barrow took the hit and Silbaby/Weedon escaped in the ensuing confusion.  Rough map, good performance.

Fun fact: On pages 24-25 of The Landscape of Avebury, by Bob Croxford, (ISBN 0-9543409-1-4); are a pair of supremely rooted trees from the eastern side of Avebury's Henge.  By reputation these inspired old J.R.R. Tolkien to write The Lord of the Rings.

Pete G., Thanks for the two barrows; I found an approximate location for 'Manton', but nothing to match White, (though I found Lockeridge, and I found White Hill; where, interestingly, Bitham Barrow could have been visible).  (Do you have a CD-rom out?)  I was, to be honest, hoping for something closer by, though the Borough may have obliterated such.  I'm quite curious about a 'Mound' on the OS map close by the Wansdyke path / Whitehorse Trail; and similar in distance and orientation to Merlin's Mount, as WKLB is to Silbaby...

Fun factoid:  Merlin's Mount lies, approximately, on the centerline of West Kennett Long Barrow; and should be visible from it.

Regarding The Sanctuary: I believe it was the linchpin of the local memorial scene -- but because, in my imagining, this was where tribal totems were erected.  Its position along the Ridgeway would give these prominence, and the intervisibility with three proposed, (again, my imagining), mortuary-island-mounts, would keep those newly dead within view of their ancestors; (some of whose bones may have been incorporated into the totems).  It's interesting to consider whether the dead would have been brought to the Sanctuary before their, (proposed), stay on one of these; as a way of introducing them into the timeless clan.  If not before, perhaps after...  And under the after heading, it should be noted that The Sanctuary looked toward the Kennett Long Barrows, Bitham; and had a barrow cemetery immediately to the northeast.

Regarding the clearance of WKLB:

Quote

It is thought that this tomb was in use for as long as 1,000 years and at the end of this period the passage and chamber were filled to the roof by the Beaker people with earth and stones, among which were found pieces of Grooved ware, Peterborough ware and Beaker pottery, charcoal, bone tools, and beads. Stuart Piggott, who excavated this mixture of secondary material, suggested that it had been collected from a nearby 'mortuary temple' showing that the site had been used for ritual activity long after it was used for burial.

From: Wikipedia on West Kennett Long Barrow

It is conceivable that this earth was removed from Silbaby, that this might explain its severe truncation, and as well as bring it up to the expected height to be in a line with The Sanctuary and S2.

[Pete G]

Anew, on 2 December 2006, 12:34, said:

Fun fact: On pages 24-25 of The Landscape of Avebury, by Bob Croxford, (ISBN 0-9543409-1-4); are a pair of supremely rooted trees from the eastern side of Avebury's Henge.  By reputation these inspired old J.R.R. Tolkien to write The Lord of the Rings.

This is nonesense.
Where are the Stone circles in LOTR?
Why wasn't Avebury mentioned in Tolkiens biog?

Its like the made up stories the nutty pagans are telling tourists at the moment, JR Rowling wrote Harry Potter after a visit to Avebury....etc
P

[Anew]

Pete G, on 2 December 2006, 8:32, said:

Anew, on 2 December 2006, 12:34, said:

Fun fact: On pages 24-25 of The Landscape of Avebury, by Bob Croxford, (ISBN 0-9543409-1-4); are a pair of supremely rooted trees from the eastern side of Avebury's Henge.  By reputation these inspired old J.R.R. Tolkien to write The Lord of the Rings.

This is nonesense.
Where are the Stone circles in LOTR?
Why wasn't Avebury mentioned in Tolkiens biog?

Its like the made up stories the nutty pagans are telling tourists at the moment, JR Rowling wrote Harry Potter after a visit to Avebury....etc
P

Fun factoid: On pages 24-25 of The Landscape of Avebury, by Bob Croxford, (ISBN 0-9543409-1-4); are a pair of supremely rooted trees from the eastern side of Avebury's Henge.  By allegation these inspired old J.R.R. Tolkien to write The Lord of the Rings.

Can't believe everything you read, I suppose. Did you mean J. K. Rowling..? Are we having fun yet?

[Nigel]

Anew - here are said roots, in case you haven't seen them - http://images.google...q=avebury roots
No idea whether Tolkein took note of them - though it is quoted by Tom Fourwinds in Megalithomania.

[Pete G]

Nigel,
I have early photos around the time when Tolkien was writing his books and said tree's are only small, no roots showing then.
I think this has just become an avebury urban myth.

[kevin.b]

I am going to Avebury tomorrow ( or today by this sites clock ) to see what i can see.
I will see where these trees are position'd precisely, the trees know things we have forgotten, they can, in their own way talk to us .
But you won't hear with your ears what they have to say.
The branches, similer to the roots, are seekers of energy.
The energy is everywhere, but it is abundant around precise spots, which it circulates around, if you can see what the tree can see, then you would place a material upon such a spot to do what the tree does.
The wise tree grows big and strong and lives a long and fruitfull life.
If you do what the tree does, so can you.
http://www.orgone.or...ax9kelley1a.htm
Wilhelm reich, seems as though he knew some trees to me?
If ? you read this all the way through, you may recognise reference to yourself ?
Look at No10, think Avebury.
Kevin

[Anew]

Nigel, on 2 December 2006, 17:50, said:

Anew - here are said roots, in case you haven't seen them - http://images.google...q=avebury roots
No idea whether Tolkein took note of them - though it is quoted by Tom Fourwinds in Megalithomania.

Thanks for the link.  Here's one from that list, as I imagine you're aware: Wallpapers.  Oh, and yes I have seen them, (or a photo thereof), I cited them.

Pete G, on 2 December 2006, 18:00, said:

Nigel,
I have early photos around the time when Tolkien was writing his books and said tree's are only small, no roots showing then.
I think this has just become an avebury urban myth.

Are we not talking now?  Surely I've offered you better.

Quote

I am going to Avebury tomorrow ( or today by this sites clock ) to see what i can see.
I will see where these trees are position'd precisely, the trees know things we have forgotten, they can, in their own way talk to us .
But you won't hear with your ears what they have to say.
The branches, similer to the roots, are seekers of energy.
The energy is everywhere, but it is abundant around precise spots, which it circulates around, if you can see what the tree can see, then you would place a material upon such a spot to do what the tree does.
The wise tree grows big and strong and lives a long and fruitfull life.
If you do what the tree does, so can you.

Please do so.

[Nigel]

Pete -

"Nigel, I have early photos around the time when Tolkien was writing his books and said tree's are only small, no roots showing then.
I think this has just become an avebury urban myth."

Fair enough, can't argue with that.

Kevin -
"I am going to Avebury tomorrow....The energy is everywhere, but it is abundant around precise spots etc"

No strategy for a fruitful meeting of minds then Kevin? Checking out possible sight lines in the particular world to which we're all privy? Binoculars near the Sanctuary, to see if you can see Merlin's Mound? Another attempt to see exactly how precise the S-S-S alignment is? Another look at whether Silbaby has facets? It seems a shame if you come back reporting yet more about what you believe, that I don't. What about a compromise, a dual purpose trip? That way, your report will be required reading for me....      

[kevin.b]

Nigel,
       Just returned from a fabulous day all around Silbury hill and environs.
Met some others there that were my top priority for going .
Wandered about the place on my own before meeting them, especially the sanctuary and along the avenue, have never been along the road where the avenue is.
You will find this hard to believe, but I can pinpoint where every missing stone was, didn't walk the full length of it , but I will next time I go there.
Basically one flow leaves the Avebury henge and travels to the sanctuary, and another flow returns along the opposite one back to the henge.
There is a similer pair of flows heading for silbaby , again it was too difficult to follow all the way, and I will track this fully in the future, and draw it.
Walked upon the fabulous tree roots, again you will have trouble believing when I say , it is exactly as I find at barrows where the trees are huddled, I followed the lower flow from in the bottom of the ditch as it tracked up and into the centre of the clump of trees.
I have found similer spots around most henge embankments, I think of them as curved barrows.
Or as at arbor low, round barrows straddling the henge embankment, possibly later additions?
The trees have good reason to clump tightly together at these spots.
Wklb was its usual fabulous self, and a near full moon hovered towards a near alignment to the east.
I met someone who I hold in the highest esteem, and do more than ever now , we don't agree fully about details, but both learn't some more clues about the intricate weave of this stunning area
Kevin

[Anew]

I applied straightedges to a printout of a google-earth map of the area, (S-S-S-WKLB), available through the megalithic portal.

It is my observation that a line from Silbury's center to The Sanctuary's, passes over Silbaby slightly off center -- a shade too close to the road, if the hill itself has not been cut.

A right-triangular relationship with the entrance of West Kennett Long Barrow seems to hold up -- or darned close to it.

[Nigel]

Anew, on 4 December 2006, 1:19, said:

I applied straightedges to a printout of a google-earth map of the area, (S-S-S-WKLB), available through the megalithic portal.

It is my observation that a line from Silbury's center to The Sanctuary's, passes over Silbaby slightly off center -- a shade too close to the road, if the hill itself has not been cut.

A right-triangular relationship with the entrance of West Kennett Long Barrow seems to hold up -- or darned close to it.

Now we're cooking!
(I believe that's the phrase...)
That seems to confirm this - http://megmumble.blogspot.com/

A right-triangular relationship with the entrance of West Kennett Long Barrow seems to hold up -- or darned close to it.
Yes. But it would be closer still if the intention was for the body of WKLB itself to be at right angles to a viewer on Silbaby - which is the strong feeling I got from looking there.

On the ground, it is very hard to know where the centre point of Silbaby is. Are you able to estimate how many feet it is from, say, the edge of the modern road?

BTW, see my latest musing here -
http://www.themodern...n.com/site/6766
What do you think?