28 replies to this topic

[chovick]

I have been receiving your weekly emails for quite a while now.  I have them sent to my work account, and they are truly the best thing I get via email all week.  I DO visit the site once every couple of months or so, and think it’s great.  I never felt the need to register before, but wanted to add to the conversation this time around.

On the hackers:  Ironic that a web site about megaliths inspires the same reaction to ruin and deface as the actual archeological sites.  I’m sure your site’s name may draw attention:  “Stone Pages” to some, may sound like a place to glorify getting stoned, not studying them.  But it’s a great name, it’s yours, and don’t you let them force you to give it up.

On the “Alternative” Section of the forum:  Your web visitors and registered users are varied in more ways than you could imagine.  I’m not an archeologist, a scientist, a scholar, or work in any field even close to this area of study.  I make a living one way, but I have interests and passions quite different.  I’ll bet quite a few of your site visitors may be like me.  Can people get ridiculous with alternative theories?  Certainly.  Can new and radical ideas stimulate the thought process, and open the door to greater understanding?  You bet.  

That said, if it’s getting out of hand, do what you’ve got to do to keep your site alive and well (and smart)!  If something in a forum is causing your site to be attacked, it’ll probably need to go, no matter how “undemocratic” and unfair it seems.  We understand your position, the limited availability of resources, and your commitment to keep this site up and running and as valuable as it currently is.  We’ll be behind you, whatever your choice may be.

[Eagle Stone]

In my opinion alternative theories should be apart of this forum but be labeled as such so as not to discredit the hard work that is factual and documented science that will stand the test of time without being distracted by off shoot theories that detract the hard work that everyone has done to document the remains of man.

Alternative theories come in different categories some are associated with fact and others are seemed to derive from some science fiction novel that seem really far fetched that will damage the creditability of this forum.

Alternative theories are needed because their is still great unexplained mysteries about the megaliths that need to be answered.

The mysteries of the megaliths is not a cut and dry issue when it comes to the practical usage on some but not all.

Most of the megaliths are still riddled with alternative theories to this day but we are getting closer compared to where we were 50 years ago.

Let me put it this way the megaliths is not such a cut and dry archeology find like finding the Egyptian monuments.

Every time I see programs on TV about Stonehenge they are always presenting new theories.

My opinion is that when you have alternative theories that do not derive from factual supporting evidence that's conclusive it should be addressed to the sender that he should post somewhere else like in the UFO forums.


I don't know if my opinion means that much since I'm new to this forum but this is my opinion.

Eagle stone.

[Exjai]

I hate to sound undemocratic, but what we have here is a case of two people working very hard to use the contributions of some, plus their own money -- to keep a very good site open.

If the alternative theories section is causing disruption, perhaps it should be set up as an area that is open only to people who pay (contribute monthly perhaps) to post there.  That way, should there be difficulty with hackers who are attracted to the site but not identifiable, or banned but capable of hacking, then at least the funds would be there to help Diego and Paula continue to operate the scientific portion of the site.

I realize that today's alternatives might be tomorrow's facts, but until that time, if they are attracting the lunatic fringe as well as interested alternative sort of thinkers, these alternatives remain a website problem.

[ocd]

Is the alternative theories section a problem?

Surely if people aren't interested in alternative theories they don't have to read them!

I like alternative theories - I also like theories based on fact too - keep it open and inspire thought on every level

ocd

[FourWinds]

Separation is probably the best. Then, when people want to read about alternative ideas they know where to look. If people aren't interested then they don't have to filter out the (in their opinion) dross.

The vociferousness of some people can easily deter people from joining in, so the separation helps there too.

[Eagle Stone]

Just a suggestion that I want to throw at the hackers problem is that I agree with everyone that posted on this topic.

Core members would gladly pay some fee to have this site going taking the burden off Diego, charging some fee and it doesn't have to be much but enough to keep most idiots away, you can make it that visitors can visit and post a couple of times but only after censorship and if they are serious about important subjects like our mans past they have to pay something reasonable.

Also under alternative theories post a disclaimer that all theories under a certain category is not apart of or represent the factual means of this forum to discredit the scientific hard work or credentials in this professional field.

While being on similar forums if you have a trouble maker that has malicious means you "ban" them from ever visiting this forum.

As a safe guard in this Internet thing you could make new comers or any member that has whacked out theories post in a category and put it in isolation until the administrator decides that it is within the context of this forum to post it.

An administrator can limit a new comer to just one post per day or at least that's the way it is on EZ board forums.

There are always safeguards that could be put into place.

There is always a way to outsmart the malicious hackers.

[RealityTest]

Are we not dealing with two separate issues here?

1.) Malicious hackers -- not posters, I gather.

2.) Whether or not to have an "alternative" forum section.

Will the ultimate decision on 2.) have any impact whatsover on 1.)?

In other words, some posters imply that the hackers are attracted
by the alternative forum section but is that truly the case? That's not
how I read Diego's comments.

Whether the existence of the alternative forum section continues or
not, I trust the site itself will continue -- it's a good source of information
and, as posted by others, there are endless alternative sites. I would
prefer the continuance of a designated alternative forum section here
(continued moderation will likely be required no matter what decision is
made) but it's not absolutely necessary, in my opinion.

Meanwhile, continuing to read old posts, I'm beginning to wonder just
what the purpose of many of the megalithic monuments was. Astronomical
alignments make sense in many cases but I wonder if the frequent description
of many of these as "tombs" is the full story.

It will take me a while to increase my knowledge and understanding of the
subject -- maybe I should wait before asking this.

Bill I.

[kevin.b]

With Respect,
                 I  voted that you should keep this forum open.
I did not vote about the alternative , as I don't comprehend what that is all about.
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Archaeology
Clearly there is no definate terminology for archaeology?
If I could add some comment as someone who has no background in archaeology what so ever.

If the subject that this site mainly contains was of an understood and clearly defined nature , then I feel common and accepted ground rules could easily be established, but.
There is no clear understanding or commonly accepted base for the megalithic sites.
They defy logic and contrevine many present day understandings and even laws of physics, with the movement of stones in particular.
Therefore I say again, "Alternative to what?"
The detective type investigation of the remains of and dating of the megaliths is one thing, and is commendable, but the reasons WHY are something else altogether.
The recent debate about toadstools I felt showed clearly a divide, with passions raised , which is good , but when it stoops to personal attacks, and is evident even in some of the replys in this thread ( lunatic?, Idiotic?, comments about posts upon other forums ) all without the merest suggestion of IN MY OPINION.
Then it is offensive and beyond contempt.
Because of this, I simply choose not to post anymore upon here, not because I dont want to, but because of the constant biggoted attacks.
I , or anyone else has every right to an opinion, and a deep understanding of many aspects pertaining to the megalithic sites, but it seems there are clear adjendas at work, where if anyone suggests things that a tiny loud minority dont like, then they are almost hounded.
So, if you desire a site where mere detective work of a scholerly accepted fashion is all that is allowed, then fine.
If you allow a wider voice and opinion, then please show the same level of decency afforded to your opinion, even when others dont agree with your view, the so called alternative section do not constantly defile and pour scorn on the so called accepted theories, because thats all they are THEORIES.
The sites in my opinion were built by peoples with a deep and thorough knowledge of the finer workings of this planet, we are almost insulated against this comprehension, but some are not, and do not apologise in any way for airing these senses.
kevin

[stonecarver]

It seems that the problem is that whilst there IS an alternative section, some bright sparks seem to pay no heed to the webmaster and enter alternative ideas in the regular section.

The answer perhaps is, to better define what constitutes 'alternative'. There will always be 'novel' solutions and ideas about prehistory, but there's a Huge difference between a new/novel solution and to something which contradicts the already substantial archaeological evidence and current opinion. Separation should mean those who aren't interested in the 'dross' (as Fourwinds calls it), can do so, by simply not bothering to read the alternative section.

[Eagle Stone]

Quote from Diego-We finally found the weak link in the chain, and our only option is to update the free software we were using (Movable Type) to its full commercial version, which hopefully does contain the latest and most secure anti-exploitation code. Unfortunately, that software will put an additional $149,95 expense per year over our shoulders. And - after the recent discussion on the meaning to keep our forum open - we are quite depressed because of the situation. It looks the more we give, the worst we get.

Like my father always told me- "the problem recognized is the the problem half solved"-is this your only problem or is there more?

Diego, if you could from reading the problems, what is the total scope of the 'Hackers doings' that put your forum in such jeopardy and what can be done to safeguard this site from bad intentions- is it security programs that is needed to fix the problem or is it censorship because of the blacklisting.

There is a way that you could format the forum that has safeguards from such occurrences like news agencies or similar sites.

What do they use?

If it cost money then set up a contribution fund for us to deposit money.

When doing the World Wide Web thing, something that I found out is that there is a lot of people  of different interests that see the Megalith mystery as a threat to other world communities as far as the capabilities of mankind and the quest of the unfolding truth of what our ancesters did.

My personal opinion is that you should get the commercial version of security if that what it takes but don't feel that you are all alone because what you established is upheld very strongly I feel with a lot of members.

Alternative theories are the core to the megaliths since they defy normal human capabilities-Usage, creating structures, moving tons of stone tens of miles and for what, we can not let go on the unfolding of usage and the current description that is close but something is still missing.

You can narrow down the problem knowing all the options to set this up to avoid hackers because I never herd of a group dominated with hackers and if that's the case I have the impression this will be the closing of this forum.



This is of major interest to me considering that I'm from Scottish decent( my last name is Moore) and my ancesters from the Gordon clan besides seeing evidence of the megalithic people here in Michigan,USA.

http://www.jewellhis...cient_mines.htm

The Megaliths are of great importance to any North European as we all know and I know nothing is going to get in our way of presenting the relevance of the mysteries that surround our past and any such move should not be tolerated the solution to all this is recognizing the problem and deal with it head on as our ancient warrior ancesters would have but only in our new circumstance.

If money is the problem Diego then your not alone with this because it effects us all in the end and the end of something that should not be.

[Exjai]

Diego, I will be happy to be a sponsor.  One thing I would note, however.  Sites that I have sponsored have not had the www in front of the name.  Two that I help own are private.  You cannot get past the gatekeeper without permission, even to read.

Another, quite popular, is readable if you know the url and you can google or ask for it.  It's sort of semi-private.

I think that to solve your immediate problem, you might consider going private.  If you would like, perhaps some of us who have experience with IPB software could help with the e mails.

If  you could make it private for a time, that might eliminate the hacker/posters, which is what I took from your explanation, to be the problem.

If you set this up so that we were invited to join and sponsor, then hacker/posters might lose interest from the get/go.

The site is known to those of us who read the weekly e mails or come here to read and/or post.  Therefore, you don't need advertising.  You are known and respected.

Once you reappear, perhaps without the www specification, then when people register, you can eliminate those posters who have been contentious from the start, thus preserving a sense of peace on the board and perhaps, saving the site from further destruction.

I have always wondered what it was about this site, a seemingly harmless and non contentious topic site, that caused you to be attacked so  much.

It makes sense that it would be people who either post or read and have strong objections to the carefully stated positions of others.  I'll have to do some more reading, but within my time constraints as my interests in archeology go beyond the megaliths into the actual lives and doings of the people.

I'm willing to help you save the site in any way that I can.  I think you need some help, whether board time or money.  I see in the responses here that there are willing hands typing.  

[wyndover]

Hello to All,

My name, Wyndover, is an incorrect spelling (Windover Farms) of an archeological site in Florida.  This particular site hasn't much at all to do with Megaliths but is important, non the less, due to the discovery of dozens of complete skeletal remains dating 7.500 BP.  Several skulls with intact brain matter are among the remains and were DNA tested.  Although controversy exist and further testing hushed, the DNA shows these remains to have the DNA X factor!  The X factor is, of course, a European trait.  Astounding!, Europeans lived some 7,000 years ago 20 miles from where I sit!

I am posting for the first time on your splendid site to reiterate and reinforce Eaglestone's position regarding alternative discussions.  I am one of Eaglestone's siblings and I also am involved with discovering a World Wide common link to early man.  I believe that many of the objects found by our family are of European origin and date back to the Paleo period.  Although the theory is new and perhaps controversial, as it suggests an early foundation of burial practices that can be linked through the ages, I believe these artifacts predate and are directly connected to the British Isle Megaliths, cairns and stone circles.  What we are hoping to share with our involvement on your site is that upon recognizing our artifacts it will allow your observational skills to perceive the existence of our discovery amongst the ancient artifacts of your land.  Thus, helping to further complete the knowledge and understanding of our heritage.

If it is allowed by the Administrator, I would desire to send a Scanned copy of an article via private e mail.  This article was written by yet another brother (Catholics ya know) and published by the Ancient American magazine.  There are a few errors inserted by the magazine's Editor but, overall, it would be a nice introduction to the artifacts to which I refer above.  Please keep in mind that the title of the 4-page article is Not our position nor stance.

If anyone is interested I will gladly send it in PDF, four attachments totaling 8 Meg.  Please send me an e mail if so.  The pages are quite legible the higher the magnification.


Regards,


Wyndover
mooret4@earthlink.net

[bobtheham]

As an advocate for what some archaeologists consider an "alternative" (read: not accepted) theory for the orientation of dolmens, I appreciate the sometimes interesting ideas that come to the surface at a forum like this. Some definitely do not pass muster with me, and I ignore those. Some have well-thought-out ideas backed by research (I like to think my work fits this description) and those add greatly to the understanding of the problems and to the choice of research directions for someone interested in the topic.

So I think the forums should remain as they are, but perhaps with the caveat that some policing will be applied to prevent the further-out ideas from becoming too prominent.

Bob Oldham
Stones and Stars Project

[Eagle Stone]

Would any hacker safe programs like this work for this site.

http://www.webhostgear.com/219.html



Also I just saw on a geographical map site that it said on the bottom hacker safe.