5 replies to this topic

[tiompan]

It has been very quiet around here so I thought I would chip in with something that might generate  interest / dispute .
Stonehenge has always eclipsed (cough ) Avebury in  the archaeoastronomical stakes . Much of it is contentious , with so many possible
bits and pieces to choose from you could prove anything . What is not in dispute is the axis echoed in the avenue which suggests  two obvious orientations
with one coming out slightly more accurate than the other i.e. winter  solstice over summer solstice .
Part of the problem with Avebury is that like Stonehenge there is so much to choose from regarding "alignnments " between stones ,compounded by possible uncertainty in relation to the re-erection of some stones .Another is the geometry , where is the centre ?  Conventially  alignments are considered from that point (that concept is due to mainly to Thom and relatively reasonable ,although there is no way of retrieving what ,if any , point of reference was used by the builders ) .What is needed to satisfy the demands of intentionality are outlying stones or related linear monuments associated like a cursus ,passage or avenue .Avebury has the remains of one Avenue and recent excavation has provided some evidence for the other at Beckhampton . The Kennet avenue consists of some straight sections and some of those have proved to have significant astronomical alignments , e.g. stone pairs 11-16 (the avenue is defined by paired stones ) stay on a orienation of 123.9 degrees for approx 120 metres when this is extended to the horizon it conicides with the point where the winetr minor lunar standstill will be seen every 18.6 yrs  , it is also the site of Bitham barrow which is probably  insignificant and fortuitous but a handy visual aid . Stone pairs 28-37 keep to a bearing of 148 degrees for a 220 metres and the point on the horizon the yindicate is the point where the major moon standstill will be seen every 18.6 years . Stones 78-83 are aligned 134 degrees and run for 110 metres they point to a point on the horizon where the winter solstice sun rises annually . There are other possible alignments relating to Beckhampton avenue but they are dependent  upon the archaeological plans having an accurate northing , if it is accurate then there are alignments to winter major moon rise and set . As mentioned previously archaeoastronomy uses precise calculations , the problem is deciding whether it shows intention on behalf of the builders . Any single standing stone couild be shown to "align" to any major astro event (at the latitude of Avebury ) but there is nothing to show intention and is therefore irrefutable and not scientific qt least with an avenue there is a clearly defined bearing . Whether the builders intended it to indicate the astro events is open to interpretation .

George

[Pete G]

I have been using the Kennet Avenue to photograph the moon and it has some very interesting aspects.
Steve Marshall showed me your alignment and it is a possibility although its odd that none of the other straight sections align with anything lunar.

When is the next minor standstill date?
PeteG

[tiompan]

Pete G, on 10 December 2008, 23:24, said:

I have been using the Kennet Avenue to photograph the moon and it has some very interesting aspects.
Steve Marshall showed me your alignment and it is a possibility although its odd that none of the other straight sections align with anything lunar.

When is the next minor standstill date?
PeteG

That's odd , I mentioned it on the Avebury forum and you replied saying Bitham barrow was possibly saxon although that was never confirmed .
The date of the barrow is irrelevant ,it just happens to be at the spot on the horizon where the event will be seen from that section of avenue ,however
some may argue it is relevant . Two sections align to lunar events , major and minor standstills , giving the possibility of intention even more credence .
Facing away from the monument there are only two possible lunar events the sections can be aligned on both of which are indicated .The other straight sections have nothing  lunar left to indicate .

Next minor standstill is 2015 , there will be a few days to choose from but I don't know the best dates .

[tiompan]

tiompan, on 10 December 2008, 15:09, said:

It has been very quiet around here so I thought I would chip in with something that might generate  interest / dispute .
Stonehenge has always eclipsed (cough ) Avebury in  the archaeoastronomical stakes . Much of it is contentious , with so many possible
bits and pieces to choose from you could prove anything . What is not in dispute is the axis echoed in the avenue which suggests  two obvious orientations
with one coming out slightly more accurate than the other i.e. winter  solstice over summer solstice .
Part of the problem with Avebury is that like Stonehenge there is so much to choose from regarding "alignnments " between stones ,compounded by possible uncertainty in relation to the re-erection of some stones .Another is the geometry , where is the centre ?  Conventially  alignments are considered from that point (that concept is due to mainly to Thom and relatively reasonable ,although there is no way of retrieving what ,if any , point of reference was used by the builders ) .What is needed to satisfy the demands of intentionality are outlying stones or related linear monuments associated like a cursus ,passage or avenue .Avebury has the remains of one Avenue and recent excavation has provided some evidence for the other at Beckhampton . The Kennet avenue consists of some straight sections and some of those have proved to have significant astronomical alignments , e.g. stone pairs 11-16 (the avenue is defined by paired stones ) stay on a orienation of 123.9 degrees for approx 120 metres when this is extended to the horizon it conicides with the point where the winetr minor lunar standstill will be seen every 18.6 yrs  , it is also the site of Bitham barrow which is probably  insignificant and fortuitous but a handy visual aid . Stone pairs 28-37 keep to a bearing of 148 degrees for a 220 metres and the point on the horizon the yindicate is the point where the major moon standstill will be seen every 18.6 years . Stones 78-83 are aligned 134 degrees and run for 110 metres they point to a point on the horizon where the winter solstice sun rises annually . There are other possible alignments relating to Beckhampton avenue but they are dependent  upon the archaeological plans having an accurate northing , if it is accurate then there are alignments to winter major moon rise and set . As mentioned previously archaeoastronomy uses precise calculations , the problem is deciding whether it shows intention on behalf of the builders . Any single standing stone couild be shown to "align" to any major astro event (at the latitude of Avebury ) but there is nothing to show intention and is therefore irrefutable and not scientific qt least with an avenue there is a clearly defined bearing . Whether the builders intended it to indicate the astro events is open to interpretation .

George

A wee addendum to the above .There was a line of posts leading from the south western palisade enclosure at West Kennet ,dead straight it crossed Gunsight lane and was over 200m long .The point it is aligned to on the horizon at Lurkely Hill is where the winter solstice sun would be seen to rise .

George

[Pete G]

George,
I have been looking at the Palisade plans and there is another line of posts near the kennet avenue and the river with the same alignment.
It occured to me that the section of stone, now missing, where the avenue goes through West Kennet House and across the A4 maybe on the same alignment as you noted at the begining of the avenue,
PeteG

[tiompan]

Pete G, on 24 December 2008, 1:15, said:

George,
I have been looking at the Palisade plans and there is another line of posts near the kennet avenue and the river with the same alignment.
It occured to me that the section of stone, now missing, where the avenue goes through West Kennet House and across the A4 maybe on the same alignment as you noted at the begining of the avenue,
PeteG

Yes there is a parallel line of posts to the one that crosses Gunsight Lane but the southerly one stops at Gunsight Lane (or maybe the digging stopped there ) , it looks like an avenue similar to those at Dunragit & Meldon Bridge  . It is very close to the same orientation as the stones 78 -83 of the West Kennet avenue i.e. 133 & 134 degrees (although it has to be said that working from a small scale  archaeological plan depicting non –extant  posts with a possible dodgy northing is not ideal ) .
The missing section  38 – 71 ?? Are there any clues ? I dunno .
What made you think it might be on the same alignment ?
It changes from a bearing of 148 -134 with a kilometre to play with . so it could easily accommodate a similar bearing to what it had nearer Avebury e.g. 123-124 but the resulting declination wouldn’t be as close to the minor standstill .