13 replies to this topic

[Anew]

Please see : Our hosts' photo and page on the Loanhead of Daviot recumbent circle in Scotland , The Modern Antiquarian's page on the site ; Our hosts' photo and page on Mên An Tol , and The Modern Antiquarian's page on that site .

I have a hunch that the ring cairn at Loanhead of Daviot may have been contemporaneous with the circle, (or closer to so than others believe), and involved, (or sprang from the continuation of), what i believe was of a mortuary tradition based on lunar ceremony and the principal of passage . I am reminded, in looking at these photos, of Mên An Tol in Cornwall . I also find it suggests the gills of a fully open, inverted, Fly Agaric cap, from which the stem has been removed, (though the cap hasn't been cut) . It is my supposition, (though not entirely alone), that inversion, the moon, and the Amanita Muscaria were involved in ceremonies regarding death, the communing with ancestors, and/or their reincarnation .

[tiompan]

Anew, on 6 October 2010 - 02:41, said:

I have a hunch that the ring cairn at Loanhead of Daviot may have been contemporaneous with the circle, (or closer to so than others believe), and involved, (or sprang from the continuation of), what i believe was of a mortuary tradition based on lunar ceremony and the principal of passage . I am reminded, in looking at these photos, of Mên An Tol in Cornwall . I also find it suggests the gills of a fully open, inverted, Fly Agaric cap, from which the stem has been removed, (though the cap hasn't been cut) . It is my supposition, (though not entirely alone), that inversion, the moon, and the Amanita Muscaria were involved in ceremonies regarding death, the communing with ancestors, and/or their reincarnation .

Kilbride-Jones interpretation of the sequence at the site was that the cairn postdated the stone circle ,but it was only an interpreation and it is quite possible that like other RSC 's with central ring cairns the stone circle came after the ring cairn . Fwiw the declination derived from the centre over the recumbent is close to that of the major standstill .

George

[kevin.b]

Tiompan,
Could I ask a favour?
I will post a link to a paper Dr TT Brown wrote, he had recording devices around the globe in deep shielded labs such as down mine shafts and extinct volcano's.
the first words are about a "glitch that occured on the 21 st dec, could You please check if a lunar standstill or half such occured then?
i would strongly recommend looking right through this paper with reference to the rocks dr brown utilised, and what He was recording, i promise you it's what the megaliths are all about.
http://www.rexresear...own4/brown4.htm
Kevin

[tiompan]

kevin.b, on 6 October 2010 - 18:10, said:

Tiompan,
Could I ask a favour?
I will post a link to a paper Dr TT Brown wrote, he had recording devices around the globe in deep shielded labs such as down mine shafts and extinct volcano's.
the first words are about a "glitch that occured on the 21 st dec, could You please check if a lunar standstill or half such occured then?
i would strongly recommend looking right through this paper with reference to the rocks dr brown utilised, and what He was recording, i promise you it's what the megaliths are all about.
http://www.rexresear...own4/brown4.htm
Kevin

No problem Kevin,  but what year ?, and possibly more importantly that is the date of the solstice .

George

[kevin.b]

Tiompan,
        I realise it's the solstice, it was where the moon was, it was 74 i believe if You read through that link.
Basically I am absolutely confident that My dowsing will conform to the recording that dr brown took for many years, and from all around the globe.
The recording ALL react instantly from all points on the globe, which is why I keep advising against visual, the cause and consequences of the scalar aspects of sidereal radiation flows are not related to where the sun is relative to a finite point on the surface of this globe, though they will match at very precise geometry, possibly the great pyramid.
The GLITCH as he calls it is detectable, and the first time I realised what I was detecting was really a mind blowing moment for Myself, I don't have the time or patience to follow this constantly, but could.

Every morning and evening there is a mini sort of solstice, but the moons position is important as it alters the geometries of the radiating fields of the earth and sun balance.

I have been in contact with Dr browns daughter for aprox five years now, She was his lab assistant, His works were classified higher than nuclear, as simple as that.

I am no writer, musician, or maths man, I am though able to connect to universe, easy to say, but hard to explain.

I am re-learning ultra fast what was a given thousands of years ago, it's about who and what we are, how We fit into universe, and how to better interact with the system We are part of, but have been isolatd from, nothing too major, but really really fabulous, and the clues are there, right in front of your noses, but our dominant senses blind us to them.
Kevin

[tiompan]

kevin.b, on 6 October 2010 - 20:44, said:

Tiompan,
        I realise it's the solstice, it was where the moon was, it was 74 i believe if You read through that link.

Kevin

Ok , maybe best to think of a standstill as a period of time when the moon gets close to it's extremes rather than a particular date .the nearest to 1974 WAS 1969/70  with 1978 seeing the minor standstill .

George

[kevin.b]

Tiompan,
          Cheers, and for those who don't quite follow what this is about,
http://en.wikipedia....unar_standstill
The geometry of the positioning of each sphere ( sun/moon/earth)
at that "glitch "timing will be very important, and an even more pronounced glitch will imho occur at max/min geometries.
The actual timing and geometric field lines involved will vary around the surface of this globe and will therefore occur in a sort of wave fashion that will be detectable similer to how a shadow moves as a cloud obscures the sun.

I consider that this GLITCH occurance was shown by each point having a bonfire ready and lit as the glitch occurance arrived, the speed of the fire light out pacing the moons travel, thus a series of bonfires heralded the moment along the line of the moons travel.

The geometries of solstice and equinox of course been bisected at 45 degrees by samhain, and that feb will have been the most eagerely watched for imho.

Kevin

[tiompan]

Dunno if this helps but at Honolulu on Dec 21 1974 a quarter moon set due west just after 1 am ,
the declination was just over 2 degrees .

George

[Anew]

tiompan, on 6 October 2010 - 15:58, said:

Kilbride-Jones interpretation of the sequence at the site was that the cairn postdated the stone circle ,but it was only an interpreation and it is quite possible that like other RSC 's with central ring cairns the stone circle came after the ring cairn . Fwiw the declination derived from the centre over the recumbent is close to that of the major standstill .

George

Thanks .

} Wikipedia on Lunar Standstill {




Other sites which might be considered in this context include :

Balnuaran of Clava in Invernessshire, which includes a less regular ring cairn and two passage tombs, (these oriented toward the solstice sunset), and each within a stone ring . The site seems to demonstrate a relation between the ring-cairn and the passage tomb . I think this would reinforce the concept of the ring cairn as a passage, while complicating or weighing against it as an emulation of an inverted Amanita Muscaria cap ⁽²⁾ . Work done in 1996 is said to have placed the rings, cairns, and the man-made platforms upon which they stand contemporary with eachother ⁽¹⁾ ; (if i read this correctly) . Interestingly, a nearby kerb-circle held masses of white quartz .

Dyce circle in Aberdeenshire, (whose recumbent i imagine might be oriented toward the major moonset, depending on where one places the center), is said to enclose the remains of a ring cairn ⁽¹⁾ .

Temple Wood in Argyllshire, whose cist orientation seems to be toward the winter solstice sunset .

And Drombeg in County Cork, Ireland, its recumbent also oriented toward the winter solstice sunset . The nearby fulacht fiadh, (cooking place), (possibly contemporaneous), might be considered as a place for having parboiled Amanita Muscaria, (Fly Agaric), toadstools to detoxify them for communal ceremonies .

Other interesting things that came up about Loanhead of Daviot :

It is said one of the stones of the ring, (to the [west?] of the recumbent's [west?] flanking stone), is aligned with the winter solstice sunset, and bears a vertical line of 12 cupmarks ⁽¹⁾ . If this is the case it would complicate or weigh against a connection between cupmarks and the moon .

And that "a pyre of willow branches had blazed inside the circle before the ring cairn was raised" ⁽¹⁾ . Willow being a water-loving tree, the choice of its branches for the pyre, (if not of convenience), would i think have held symbolic meaning .

⁽¹⁾ Circles of Stone, Max Milligan & Aubrey Burl ; ISBN 1-86046-661-3


⁽²⁾ To preserve such a symbolic link, one might consider the possibility that passage tombs themselves were emulations of the Muscaria cap, with the passage being its, (somewhat the more proportionally slender), stem . This might also provide an explanation of the quartz sometimes found at these sites, (as it could be said to represent the disintegrating veil) . A test for the elevated presence of Fly Agaric spores at the Drombeg kitchen, within and around rings oriented toward the lunar standstill and winter solstice sunset, and, potentially, of the urns and cists from these contexts, (as they might have served a dual purpose), could provide for a clearer picture ; and a difficult grant .

[kevin.b]

This man has some interesting ideas, especially visual, just keep in mind the figure of eight arrangement of the two so called boat shaped circles.
http://www.alesstena...ng/indexeng.htm
http://www.analemma....framesPage.html
Kevin

[tiompan]

Anew, on 7 October 2010 - 07:53, said:

Dyce circle in Aberdeenshire, (whose recumbent i imagine might be oriented toward the major moonset, depending on where one places the center), is said to enclose the remains of a ring cairn ⁽¹⁾ .

Temple Wood in Argyllshire, whose cist orientation seems to be toward the winter solstice sunset .

And Drombeg in County Cork, Ireland, its recumbent also oriented toward the winter solstice sunset .


Other interesting things that came up about Loanhead of Daviot :

It is said one of the stones of the ring, (to the [west?] of the recumbent's [west?] flanking stone), is aligned with the winter solstice sunset, and bears a vertical line of 12 cupmarks ⁽¹⁾ . If this is the case it would complicate or weigh against a connection between cupmarks and the moon .

And that "a pyre of willow branches had blazed inside the circle before the ring cairn was raised" ⁽¹⁾ . Willow being a water-loving tree, the choice of its branches for the pyre, (if not of convenience), would i think have held symbolic meaning .

Other RSC 's with ring cairns include Berrybrae ,Tomnaverie ,Garrol Wood ,Esslie greater and lesser and Raes of Clune .Dyce/Tyrebagger is a wee bit off for the standstill (by 2.6 degrees of declination ) or not as close as others .The centre of the circle is difficult enough to find and given the short distance to a relatively narrow marker like a flanker leaves a lot of leeway in choosing an azimuth so any centre of circle line line over an orthostat is likely to be contentious ,because the recumbent is so long ,it , arguably ,  makes for a more likely orientation .
George

[Anew]

tiompan, on 7 October 2010 - 08:44, said:

Other RSC 's with ring cairns include Berrybrae

[...]

Dyce/Tyrebagger is a wee bit off for the standstill (by 2.6 degrees of declination ) or not as close as others .The centre of the circle is difficult enough to find and given the short distance to a relatively narrow marker like a flanker leaves a lot of leeway in choosing an azimuth so any centre of circle line line over an orthostat is likely to be contentious ,because the recumbent is so long ,it , arguably ,  makes for a more likely orientation .
George

Dyce was a stretch, (i admit it), but i was thinking compass bearing rather than declination . Do you mean that the moon would appear to 'graze' some recumbents at the low point of its travel at the standstill ?


Regarding Berrybrae, (our hosts' page here, and the Modern Antiquarian's, here) : I find the bump on the recumbent's upper face curious . And note that the contour of the inner face of the remaining flanker appears to bear a natural seam running from the level of the recumbent's surface ~ looking rather like the map of a stream which had run east from the recumbent, before turning northeast or north-northeast, (as one reads it) . Google Maps' relief view of the area offers the (slight) possibility that back in the day a stream might have done likewise past that spot ... but perhaps more to the (speculative) point, the overall (and nearby) coastline terminates a strong eastward line to the north of the site, and a strong north-northeastward line to its (somewhat more distant) south-southeast .




postscript : Isn't it amazing that you can go on a computer in Pennsylvania and see waves breaking in Scotland ?

[tiompan]

Anew, on 8 October 2010 - 12:44, said:

tiompan, on 7 October 2010 - 08:44, said:

Other RSC 's with ring cairns include Berrybrae

[...]

Dyce/Tyrebagger is a wee bit off for the standstill (by 2.6 degrees of declination ) or not as close as others .The centre of the circle is difficult enough to find and given the short distance to a relatively narrow marker like a flanker leaves a lot of leeway in choosing an azimuth so any centre of circle line line over an orthostat is likely to be contentious ,because the recumbent is so long ,it , arguably ,  makes for a more likely orientation .
George

Dyce was a stretch, (i admit it), but i was thinking compass bearing rather than declination . Do you mean that the moon would appear to 'graze' some recumbents at the low point of its travel at the standstill ?


Regarding Berrybrae, (our hosts' page here, and the Modern Antiquarian's, here) : I find the bump on the recumbent's upper face curious . And note that the contour of the inner face of the remaining flanker appears to bear a natural seam running from the level of the recumbent's surface ~ looking rather like the map of a stream which had run east from the recumbent, before turning northeast or north-northeast, (as one reads it) . Google Maps' relief view of the area offers the (slight) possibility that back in the day a stream might have done likewise past that spot ... but perhaps more to the (speculative) point, the overall (and nearby) coastline terminates a strong eastward line to the north of the site, and a strong north-northeastward line to its (somewhat more distant) south-southeast .




postscript : Isn't it amazing that you can go on a computer in Pennsylvania and see waves breaking in Scotland ?

It will set over the recumbent as seen from the centre at the standstill .The "best" date for the standstill in 206 would ahve seen it skim along the recumbent .
Aikey Bare also has a "lump" on it's recumbent . Berrybrae is one of the few recumbents that are not aligned on the major standstill but it is very close to the minor standstill .

p.s. Yep .

George

[Anew]

Quote

Regarding Berrybrae, (our hosts' page here, and the Modern Antiquarian's, here) : I find the bump on the recumbent's upper face curious . And note that the contour of the inner face of the remaining flanker appears to bear a natural seam running from the level of the recumbent's surface ~ looking rather like the map of a stream which had run east from the recumbent, before turning northeast or north-northeast, (as one reads it) . Google Maps' relief view of the area offers the (slight) possibility that back in the day a stream might have done likewise past that spot ... but perhaps more to the (speculative) point, the overall (and nearby) coastline terminates a strong eastward line to the north of the site, and a strong north-northeastward line to its (somewhat more distant) south-southeast .

Regarding the lines on the flanker : As i believe this has a southerly orientation, a better interpretation might be that the line ran west from the level of the recumbent before turning to the southwest or south-southwest . The coast can be interpreted either way, though the symbolic difference may have mattered, if .


Regarding the bump on the recumbent : The coastline to the east, near the Loch of Strathbeg, takes somewhat the same profile, (if one turns the figurative map so that the flat is NNW-SSE) . The lump also makes the recumbent look, as Chris noted at TMA, like a boat ~ which may have been significant, (depending on the designs they used), as the stretch of coast to the east provides sandy beaches from and on which shallow draft boats could be launched and landed, (though such beaches are common in the area) . Google's terrain map appears to show the ring on the edge of what may have been marshy ground to the east of Waughton Hill, from which water may flow past the ring to the Loch and thence the sea to the northeast ; or flow generally to the north and another, sheltered, sandy beach by Fraserburgh .

Quote

It will set over the recumbent as seen from the centre at the standstill .The "best" date for the standstill in 206 would ahve seen it skim along the recumbent .
Aikey Bare also has a "lump" on it's recumbent . Berrybrae is one of the few recumbents that are not aligned on the major standstill but it is very close to the minor standstill .

Thanks again .


Regarding Aikey Brae, our hosts' page here, and the Modern Antiquarian's here : This seems to have given the viewer a chance to look down a shallow, eastward running valley to the mouth of the river Ugie, (which, or a tributary stream thereof, ran down that shallow valley), and with it to the cape and natural harbor at Peterhead . Near, but not immediately in front of the site, the stream doglegs, (N-S), at the village of Old Deer, before continuing with its easterly flow as far as the town of Maud . The eastward flow of fresh water, (toward the equinoctial rising), i believe, held symbolic importance to them ; possibly involving rebirth or reincarnation .


While recognizing the fertility / phallic interpretation of the recumbent and the ring, (and that it would work well with the symbolism one may apply to the eastward running river) ; i suggest that the recumbent may have been intended to resemble a boat having a raised gunwale toward its bow . The westward orientation of this 'boat' may have been symbolic of safe return . Another, (and favorite), possibility is that the recumbent was symbolic of a Right whale . Though i am aware of no evidence they revered and/or hunted these, the (modern) range passes close to this region .

Quote

Right whales were so named because early whalers  considered them the "right" whale to hunt. In the early centuries of shore-based whaling prior to 1712, right whales were virtually the only catchable large whales, for three reasons:

    * They often swam close to shore where they could be spotted by beach lookouts, and hunted from beach-based whaleboats
    * They are relatively slow swimmers, allowing whalers to catch up to them in their whaleboats
    * Once killed by harpoons, they were more likely to float, and thus could be retrieved. However, many did sink when killed (10-30% in the North Pacific) and were lost unless they later stranded or surfaced.[20]

Basque people were the first to commercially hunt right whales. They began as early as the 11th century in the Bay of Biscay. They initially sought oil, but as meat preservation technology improved the animal was also used for food.


~ from Wikipedia | Right whale

Quote

In the 1920s anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson lived with and studied a group of Inuit. The study focused on the fact that the Inuit's extremely low-carbohydrate diet  had no adverse effects on their health, nor indeed, Stefansson's own health. Stefansson (1946) also observed that the Inuit were able to get the necessary vitamins they needed from their traditional winter diet, which did not contain any plant matter. In particular, he found that adequate vitamin C could be obtained from items in their traditional diet of raw meat such as Ringed Seal liver and whale skin (muktuk). While there was considerable scepticism when he reported these findings, they have been borne out in recent studies.

~ from Wikipedia | Inuit

It is imaginable that the peoples of prehistoric Aberdeen collectively hunted these ; And if so that they may have traded their surplus from a catch with those farther inland and to the south .