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Meet In Avebury In September?


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#16 Nigel

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Posted 7 September 2004 - 15:47

8.30am eh? Blimey. Ah well, if I’m a bit late I’m sure Jim will entertain you.

“I'll be the guy with the gray beard and the ponytail. (See avatar.)”….
And a banana and flippers by the look of it. Hope we can pick you out!     ;)

Jim is the bloke with none of these things (centre, top picture)
http://www.heritagea...emo0504pictures
and I’m the bloke with just one (centre, bottom picture)

If anything should go wrong, then the Red Lion at Avebury is the obvious default.

Looking forward to it.

#17 Loie

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Posted 8 September 2004 - 02:03

Nigel, I'm not a morning person either, but for this, I'll make a supreme effort. We're looking forward to meeting you, Jimit, and the stones.

Cheers, Loie

#18 Jimit

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Posted 20 September 2004 - 16:26

Just to report that we all met, plus two of BuckyE and Loie's friends, and did the whole landscape in very drizzly weather. Pete G gave us his usual fantastic tour of Avebury. Pub lunches were enjoyed and an evening session as well. So much to report but I'll wait for B and L impressions  :D

#19 BuckyE

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Posted 6 October 2004 - 04:55

Dear Friends,
We are finally home, after a magical couple of days in Avebury and two weeks in Brittany. There aren't words in my vocabularly to adequately express our gratitude for the generosity of our guides Jim, Nigel and Pete. The significance of what you guys showed us is still sinking in. Avebury itself is such an amazing place--and please all remember we were seeing it after a day at Stonehenge and its environs (on only a few hours of sleep, thanks to Iceland Air's incompetence at fixing flat tires)--that it would take literally years to really understand it.
But thanks to an incomparable tour, we feel so familiar Avebury seems almost like home.
After our day with the Stonepagers, and our morning walk 'round Silbury with Jim, Loie and I spent an afternoon revisiting the Avebury henge: walking its entire ridge, . We reviewed all that we had learned about the individual stones, letting Nigel and Jim's ideas about the site sink in, and trying to have what Pete told us about the environs, the many unexcavated circles, barrows and house sites blend with our impressions of the land we could and couldn't see. (We hope our subsequent musings aren't influenced TOO much by the footballer's wedding party gathering at the Red Lion, or the faux medieval wedding party traipsing along the henge to Nigel's "druid trees" in flowing robes, tunics and plastic flip flops. [I won't even MENTION our talk with Mr. Sumbler in his antique shop.])
Here's our idea. Avebury henge, the avenues and Silbury Hill have nothing to do with anything like what we would call a "landscape," that is, the water and soil and topography and flora and fauna that naturally exist in some place. The henge was built in the closest big flat place to the Palisades, where people lived and worked. It was constructed to demonstrate power--technological, agricultural, political--and that's it. Exactly HOW it did this we'll probably never know. In other words, what the henge and the coves and the individual stones meant specifically, or what exactly people did there, is a mystery lost in the mists. But whether the people who built Avebury were worshiping the Goddess Bri/Bree or some patriarchal horned Cerunnos is beside the point.
WHAT they were worshipping, or kow-towing to, was power. Power to move rocks, to dig chalk, to dick with things. Where's Ozymandias when you really need him, huh?
It was wonderful, just wonderful. So much more than we could have imagined. Thank you all, again and again. Oh, and, film at eleven. Let's talk.

#20 Nigel

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Posted 7 October 2004 - 08:28

Hello again Bucky and Loie,
Glad you enjoyed your visits and that you're back safely. You must gives us an account of how les francais arrange their stones.

Personally, I'd agree with your feeling that Avebury essentially represents power imposed on the landscape, not designed to be part of it. On the other hand, I get the feeling that the builders were very aware of how they could emphasise this power through impacting the wider viewshed (horrible term).
The beauty of it is that it's incomplete though, so there are clues and room for speculation. I'm very envious of people like Pete, able to find new things almost on a daily basis.  Every week something new pops up - I find that fascinating, in such a well-studied and visited place.

In my own modest way, that happened to me on the day we met. The coin turns out to be a George III halfpenny, dated the year before the cornish miners made the first excavation into the hill, and it seems it might have come from that exercise. Consequently, the local museums would like to put it on show. If I get the chance to dictate what goes on the finders label I'll tell a slight porky and include your names on it - so you can go down as (deserved) contributors to the Avebury story! So you'll have to come back soon to inspect it!

#21 BuckyE

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 20:35

Dear Nigel and friends,
I'm writing the afternoon after the Oktoberfest Party and Burning Man at our friends' the Peelings. Talk about a Neolithic event! Well, actually maybe more an Iron Age one, as the Burning Man is suspended from an iron beam whose top end is about twenty feet in the air when he's dancing (film and pictures to be posted somewhere, soon). But all in all quite a bachanal. For a bunch of forty and fifty year old parents and their kids and grandkids, that is. I'm also recovering from a rotten head cold, so please forgive any small incoherencies.

Nigel, we couldn't be more pleased or proud at the chance to have our inconsequential names associated with magical Avebury. It's great that your find has been identified. That was so much fun, sitting with you guys and the Hauers in the New Inn, pondering that little bit of history. Loie and I have done a bit of that kind of traveling before, poking around old stones and hobnobbing a tiny bit with a few locals, but we've never had a chance to spend so much good time with so many expertly knowledgeable and agreeable new friends. We're ready to come back; our time there was not nearly enough. And besides, Mr. Sumbler's promised to show us some crop circles.

As to the "viewshed," which I think is an admirable word, we were kind of, umm, underwhelmed. Perhaps the weather kept us from appreciating it as much as we could have with wider forays, walks and inspections. Perhaps the modern viewshed interferes, and lack of the full ancient panoply prevents comprehension. And just what WAS on top of Silbury? I guess it couldn't have been a Burning Man, huh? Not enough charcoal up there? Or has the top not been dug into enough?

All in all, though--and our French investigations may be influencing our British recollections--it didn't seem to us that the Avebury placements and prospects were particularly impressive. Big, yes, to the point of each individual element's being overwhelming. The Avebury "gates" must have been awesome when intact, and of course Stonehenge is without peer. (Well, the Grand Menhir Brisé was no piker, either.) But as far as being a well-thought out collection of viewscaping, along the lines of what Lancelot 'Capability' Brown used to do, I'd have to give the Neolithic guys an at-most passing grade. To make a well-considered judgement, we'd have to come back and spend a lot more fair-weather time walking the Ridgeway, walking the Avenues, considering the views from the long barrows, watching the moon and sun rises and settings, and so forth and so on. Loie and the Hauers and I were just overwhelmed by all we were seeing and learning. It needs more time.

And then, of course, before any of what you all so kindly tried to help us see could even begin to sink in, we were off on the Ferry of Grand Vitesse for Brittany. A week in the Morbihan, then a week on the Pink Granite Coast, seeing just about every alignment, menhir, dolmen, alleé couverte, quadrilateral, engraved stone and what-have-you we could cram in. Those old French guys were even more stone-mad than your British forebears. The Carnac and Erdeven alignments are astounding. Thousands of stones stuck up in groups of ten or twelve rows that go on for miles. The Avebury Avenues would have been insignificant little bits of the alignments in France, which contain many Avebury-avenue sized stones in their "large" ends, and dwindle away to little things Obelix would have scorned to lug about. But then, with huge Stonehenge-henged-sized rings at each end of the alignments; and dolmens and alleé-couverts scattered all about. And the tumulus of St. Michel looms up right by the Carnac alignments, half as big as Silbury Hill, granted; but still big enough that the chapel perched on it looks tiny.

Yet, again, the alignments and menhirs and dolmens seemed, to our modern eyes, to have been just kind of plunked down. True, the rows tended to have their large-stone ends at the top of little hills, but the "hills" were barely worthy of the name: just small rises of a few dozen feet over the length of a quarter mile. Nothing to be seen from them, except more of the same kind of countryside, and often, at many sites, a few trees would have--and do--destroy any view at all.

Maybe the "views" were of night sky, or of astronomical events on the horizon? Perhaps, but then, stone rings within miles of each other? What would a tribe or clan of a few hundred or even thousand people need with all these things, none of which seems to be any better placed than the other to catch "views"? Each on its little rise, or just as likely, in its little low spot? It all makes no sense whatsoever. There are so damn many of them: immense beyond belief menhirs and tiny little ones; immense, highly decorated passage "graves" like Gavrinis, covered with huge mounds on prominent hill-sides overlooking the mouth of the river as it meets the sea; and tiny little dolmens of a half-dozen stones lost in some little valley, overlooking nothing.

So far, at the end of Driving The Stone Age Part Two, all we can think is this. The Neolithic was not, by any means, monolithic. There were already in place richly varied Mesolithic cultures. And they were influenced by more than a few kinds of thought that created what we think of as "The Neolithic." It seems there was, in a very general way, a turning away from the Nature-oriented art of the Paleolithic to a much more human-power-centric set of concerns. Perhaps the trend from "dolmen" to henge reflects the dying out of the earth-mother-cave concern and the rise of the sky-gods concern. But, the sky-piercing Grand Menhir Brisé may have been knocked down by a bunch of people who then built passage-mounds. It's certain, from the matching of engraved art on certain broken bits of roof-slab, that a huge menhir from somewhere near the Grand Menhir was knocked down and reused to roof passages. The chronology just isn't good enough, or at least, not well understood enough by us, to truly make any sense out of it.

Loie and I wanted to try to understand how our culture "began." We need either more time at this, or a different approach to it. Seeing the stones and barrows and walls and cursuses and hills has been thrilling, and you guys helped make it even more so. But really, we're just flabbergasted. Other than impressing someone, or some god, we have no idea what those old time guys could have been thinking. It's screwy! Marvelous, fascinating, mysterious, yes, but, screwy.
Bucky Edgett

#22 Pete G

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Posted 10 October 2004 - 22:23

>I'm very envious of people like Pete, able to find new things almost on a daily basis. Every week something new pops up  :D
Nigel, would you like to help me to archive and sort through the huge 17 gigabites of digital photos I've taken this year?  :o

It was nice to meet BuckyE and crew and I look forward to seeing them again.
I will be spending more time in the air over the coming months as the winter is best for viewing some of the finds I have made in recent years. Paying passengers are welcome, email me at avebury@gmail.com for details.

I was given another coin from the base of Silbury, a George II half penny which is now in the hands of the AK museum.
Heads http://aveburytour.m...co.uk/Heads.jpg
Tails http://aveburytour.m...co.uk/Tails.jpg

I am working on a Grand Tour of Avebury and environs and have started a new website, details are here
http://peteglastonbury.ic24.net/
Let me know what you think as the pages grow.
I was hoping to have the CD Rom ready for Xmas but because of recent difficulties moving house it won't be ready until at least next spring now.
Big Grins,
PeteG

#23 Loie

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Posted 11 October 2004 - 00:43

Wow! Fantastic photos, Pete. The aerialview of the henge is fabulous. Loie



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