15 replies to this topic

[hope4history]

Vandalism is a growing problem, the biggest problem being how to stop it. What do you think?

[Venutius]

I don't agree that locking sites away will protect them, Experience has shown they often do the opposite. Camera's would probably get nicked too! Better signs at sites would be atart. A heck of a lot of vandalism is down to a lack of knowledge.

[hope4history]

Hmmm. I think your right. Many people do not know the importance of sites, or simply don't care, wich is most unfortunate.

[galician]

Hello again!
That's a very interesting question. Here in Galicia (NW of Spain, for those who don't know, the green "Celtic" corner of Spain) vandalism is also a problem. When I visit any megalithic site, I usually find some graffiti on the ancient stones, telling us that a bastard called Juan was there or a stupid called Pedro loves María, or other absolutely uninteresting information! Sometimes, the sites are also full of garbage, because people use the sites for weekend picnics, and even sometimes somebody mistook the megalitic chamber for a public W.C. And sometimes (usually not very often) some drunken hooligans have demostrated their manhood and strenght by knocking down or breaking one of the stones of the megalith. Not related to this, but also a problem for megaliths, from time to time any local farmer using heavy farming machinery hits a megalith in a foul maneouvre and knocks it down. It happened, for example, with one of the few standing stones documented in Galicia, the "Pedra Alta" of Antela, near Xinzo de Limia.
What can we do to avoid this? Sorry, I don't know. Megaliths are usually in the middle of nowhere, far away from any inhabited place. This is, of course, a part of their charm: the ancient tomb in the middle of a forest, and so on... But this also makes much more difficult to protect them. Fences? Not a problem for a vandal: a fence will make it even funnier. One of our megaliths, the Dolmen of Dombate, has been excavated and after that, they've put a fence around it. It totally killed the charm of the place! Cameras? As somebody said, those cameras will be broken by the vandals, or even stolen! Guards? You have to pay them, and that's too expensive. Our politicians don't think that megaliths are so important. They don't put permanent guards in our Gothic Cathedrals, so why should they put them in those ugly roughly-cut stones?
Megaliths will be safe only when all the people know what they are, an important part of our heritage. Education is the key. But no matter how many people you inform and "convert" to our cause. You only need a stupid with a paint spray to spoil a megalith!
I think that the only thing we can do is to keep an eye on our megaliths and clean the graffiti and replace the knocked down stones as soon as we know of them. Of course, "we" means the Government Agencies in charge of that, an irresponsible cleaning action of a graffity by some goodwilled amateurs can be as harmful as the vandalic act itself!. I remember whe some amateurs were put in charge of cleaning a Romanesque monastery here. They made a good job cleaning the walls... Including some Medieval paintings!
Oh, yes, there's another method... Our host's ancestors developed a good way of telling people that breaking the law is not a good idea: Crucifixion! But I'm afraid that you'll consider those radical methods out of place in our modern world...

[Diego]

galician, on 8 February 2005, 4:36, said:

Megaliths will be safe only when all the people know what they are, an important part of our heritage. Education is the key.

That's the point, well said, Galician! Truly an interesting thread.
In Italy the problem of vandalism and destruction of ancient sites is probably even worse. We first made a megalithic tour of Apulia, one of our southern regions, in 2000. Last year we went there again to expand our search of megaliths and to make GPS readings of them all. Well, in just 4 years, two standing stones simply disappeared: one of them was taken away by a farmer (probably to make a stone wall of his new house), and the other had the bad luck to stand near a new factory which needed an expansion of its perimeter wall. And we've been told that in the same region over 300 ancient megalithic sites have been destroyed over the last 50 years.
So long, Macchia Belladonna and Candido standing stones. We will miss you so much!  
Anyway, as Galician pointed out, there is no way to effectively stop this happening - but (do the Romans invented it?) the crucifixion isn't a bad idea at all...  

[hope4history]

Hm, all of you mention some very important things. perhaps then, a combination of all these things, especially education, is the best way to go? or is a whole new method required, one that has not yet been mentioned?

[Venutius]

The biggest problem facing us is our own lack of knowledge and the need of archeos to maintain credibility.

In order to spread the word, you must have an inspirational tale to tell - something with sufficient detail to allow ordinary people to feel an association - an understanding of what the site was about. This is why Roman sites are (IMO) far better respected by the public than ancient sites.

For example, in most regions Cursus monuments were the first communal religious monuments, they were the birth of modern religion in Britain  at a time when modern society was being established. Surely the story of the cursus is one that could be very inspirational for people - anyone who has spirituality cannot fail to be moved by the story of the development of our earliest religious monuments.

Of course, we are not entirely sure what they were used for, and here lies the problem - because of this very little is written about them and they are not celebrated. They may be one of the rarest types of monument in Britain, but we are losing them to gravel extraction and development because no-one has told Joe Public of their potential place in the development of religion in Britain.

In many ways, this is why I wrote my book "Henge Capital of Britain"  http://www.sacredval...ndise/Books.htm
I've written this so that ordinary people can get a feel for the massive developments taking place during the late Neolithic.

To my mind, we need to do more of this, we need to become eveangelists and we need to try to avoid giving the public bland descriptions of what is physically there - they want to know what they are and why they are there, only then will they start to respect them.

[Diego]

Venutius, on 9 February 2005, 13:03, said:

we need to try to avoid giving the public bland descriptions of what is physically there - they want to know what they are and why they are there, only then will they start to respect them.

First of all, congratulations for your book: it looks really interesting and we are looking forward to buying a copy.

Then a consideration: you are perfectly right when you say we must avoid giving the public bland descriptions of the ancient sites. However, it's always extremely difficult to assess what really those monuments represented and why they have been built. Not even the most respected archaeologists have clear-cut opinions about them - and the boundary between facts and opinions may be really thin while speaking of those ancient sites. That's the main reason why so many books about megaliths just describe what is physically there: it's the only evidence we are 100% sure of.
Anyway, you raised another important issue: we must always try to look at those sites not as single monuments, but as a whole. They are deeply connected with the landscape and their location was probably selected very carefully, looking also at the other sites nearby and the trackways.
We can't pretend to know everything about them, but we can do our best to share our little knowledge so to make people respect them as today we respect churches, burial grounds and historic buildings.

[Venutius]

Yes it is unfortunate that we are in this catch 22. However, a quick look at a few EH press releases and we can see that accuracy is easily sacrificed for some sites even by professionals.

I visit scholls in the area and explain henges etc. in terms of the historical development of religious structures. I know how little we know etc. but I find putting them into this context can really inspire childrens imagination. Once that is done, then I bring in the questions - what were they really for etc. I find once they have a concept they can understand, kids can easily accept that there is a great deal of mystery about these sites and this inspires their imagination. I believe it is here we need to start.

[ashishraj]

The common is usuall woefully ignorant about heritege and it shall remain so in near future. To teach someone in these days of Information overflow is an ardous task. However, Penalties, punishment and fines do wonder. Most of the time authorities are afraid to impose them for the fear of losing visitors. They must realise that they will lose visitors in any case - with bad showpieces, it will take little time to lose visitors. However, if vandalism is prevented, it sends a very positive signal and keeps the showpieces intact, the very purpose of new visitors.

So, the authorities must impose Penalties.

[Venutius]

I recently visited the site of Scorton Cursus. Now 98% lost to quarrying. It was one of only two cursus monuments in North Yorkshire. Try finding any information about this site and you will be hard pushed - it has been all but erased from the record.

The next closest major monument to Scorton Cursus is Catterick Henge. Again this is a site that has been all but lost to development - more recently down to quarrying.

Less than 2% of the local population know these sites ever existed and they are very surprised that Scorton was one of the largest cursuses in the country or that Catterick was larger than Stonehenge and one of only two henges of this type in the country.

This is loss of heritage of a massive scale and the authorities responsible for the protection of such monuments help their destruction by refusing to publicise their existence even to local people. It seems monuments are only important when they are not subject to developers plans.

Faced with this, what hope is there of EH actually trying to punish people who vandalise ancient sites? Don't look to our government for solutions because you will be waiting a very long time. The punishments have been there for many years and EH is far less likely to take anyone to court than ever before.

The only people who can look after a site are those people who live locally - it is thesethat see the site more than anyone else, it is these who, armed with the right information can effect change. The taks in my view is to arm local people with the right information and many will become very proud of the heritage on their doorstep.

[Aine]

It's sad but true... often our ancient monuments can only be protected by closing them off at night and providing security. The problem is there are too many ignorant and unappreciative people out there who have no idea what they are trampling all over... and probably wouldn't care if you told them.
I work at Corfe Castle... a site which is classified as a Scheduled Ancient Monument. Unfortunately it is also a tourist hotspot, and as such falls into other categories too.... playground, football field, rubbish dump amongst them. Sad but true... too many people don't give a t*ss where we come from... or probably where we're going either.

[Jimit]

All is not entirely lost Aine, last year this organisation  http://www.heritageaction.org/  was set up to address exactly the problems you mention. It is a growing pressure group of fighters for our Heritage although it mainly concentrates on the most ancient sites, the least known or protected. One member, George Chaplin, who runs a parallel web site Time Watch, has been amazingly successful in bringing public attention to Thornborough Henge in Yorkshire which was under threat from quarrying. Check the Heritage Journal above for the latest news. Heritage Action also has a section where you can add information about sites which are being vandalised or destroyed. Heritage Action can be a sort of clearing -house, bringing together people who are concerned about a local (or national) site, and using its increasing muscle to hassle those people (private or public)responsible

May I suggest that anyone who is concerned about our ancient past, contact Heritage Action.
We are getting stronger and stronger.  

Jim.

[Cakes]

Perhaps hosts could stay at the site to guide tractors about and such. The host position could be paid or volunteer and maybe participants would be chosen by lottery each season if many people wanted to take their turn. I imagine that applying for a grant to the right foundation might provide housing (underground?) and security cameras so the host could be notified of any entries into the area. Perhaps the cameras could be disguised so that they would not detract from the beauty of the area. They come very small these days and may not be detectable anyway, especially with a little help. Of course, nearby parking lots or roadways could be monitored for liscence plates if someone needs to be billed for clean-up costs or (?). A loudspeaker would be a tool that would enable a host to shout out warnings to...

Perhaps historical societies should go international if they are not at present. A U.N. committee may go a long way towards securing permission to install hosts and surveillance cameras.

RE: the graffiti, is there scotchguard for rocks? Some type of substance that would help the removal of future paint attacks? I have seen sealents for rock sold at least.

Sandblasting or solvents might leave unattractive patches that could possibly be "antiqued" with (?) dirt, oxidations, paints, etc. maybe consult with rock artisans. Moss growths seem interesting to me (there are recipes for making moss grow, blending it up with buttermilk and such) Moss, lichen and fungi growths could cover existing paint or hopefully even eat it away; who knows what would be possible there. Perhaps a dosing of the appropriate bacteria would eat paint.

Repairing or re-creating a missing member to a set of monuments might be a fun summer job for the fellows who do that type of thing. Talk to rock makers like the guys who create habitats for zoos/sanctuaries, Hollywood sets and rock swimming pools; maybe hit up a couple of those celebrities with the rock hot tubs on MTV to sponser the creation or repair of a 'rock for the ages'. A telethon?

It would best be done while there are still citizens available that have seen the rocks before they needed repair. Have photo records been made of the ones still existing? in case they need future repair...

Anchoring (with buried rods?) might benefit some of the smaller monuments. Epoxied on? and Naturalized (disguised), of course.

[Jimit]

In an ideal world, some of your ideas would work, but when you consider the thousands and thousands of sites involved, permanent guardians would be astronomically expensive to maintain. Some of the monuments are in extremely remote parts of the country and permanent cameras would have to be powered (wind, solar?) with a detrimental effect on the site itself and themselves be vunerable to theft.
The restoration of sites is an very thorny subject. Some want to re-erect every fallen stone yet others want to leave well alone until our archaeological techniques improve. If this last idea seems strangely conservative, let us not forget the un-reparable damage done to some of our best known monuments in the past. (Check out Silbury Hill!) My own opinion lies somewhere in the middle.
Concerning graffiti, a protective coating for the stones is a non starter as it would destroy the lichens, many of which are believed to be hundreds, if not thousands of years old. For discussions on the difficulties arising from removing paint go to    http://www.themodern...ian.com/site/65
where vandalism at the very public Rollright Stones caused uproar.
Most of the sites have deep spiritual meaning for millions of people and you alter them at your peril.
Jim.