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Steer Me In The Right Direction
Started by needtoknow, 7-Feb-2005 06:23
9 replies to this topic
#3
nena
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Pebble Tripper
- Location:Dundalk, Ireland
Posted 7 February 2005 - 14:53
nena: this is the article. sorry the link didn't work. its kind of long but read it and it might explain some things. if you dont understand anything just ask.
Footprints in the sand
To experience winter solstice at Newgrange is to feel touched by something beyond routine existence or explanation, writes Eileen Battersby
Winter has finally begun to die. With the arrival of solstice, darkness will commence its gradual release of the Earth. Light will slowly reassert itself over the coming weeks and months. Nature will wake. Soon we will see the first traces of new growth.
Yesterday morning, diverse pilgrims - the curious alongside the committed, some from nearby, others from abroad, working archaeologists, interested amateurs and visitors hoping to share in a mystery shaped by imagination, spirituality and science - gathered once more in the blackness of a December morning at Newgrange, Co Meath. There will be others who will maintain a vigil over the five days of the Winter solstice, but December 21st, the shortest day of the year, has become central to an enduring ritual, only with its passing of a day that is more night can hope return.
As the morning mist rises off the Boyne and eerie shadows are rendered innocent, all who have experienced the privilege of being in the chamber to witness a form of rebirth that has taken place, at times spectacularly, on other occasions, barely discernibly, feel touched by something beyond routine existence or explanation.
Whether the rising sun lights up the chamber of the great monument with its dazzling rose-gold beam of dawn brightness, or the clouds defeat her efforts, light will enter the passage. Even the chill, grey, natural light of a dull morning creeping laboriously up the passage is a cause of celebration, it too will reveal the footprints in the sand to those waiting inside.
Just as the light, be it glorious or watery, brings hope, the same might be said of the people who stand and watch - those inside the chamber or those who wait outside for news from within and are content merely to be present as a phenomenon takes place. In some ways, the division of the watchers, those inside - albeit some having waited 10 years for a ticket - and those without seem to reflect rank or status as understood in Neolithic society.
No one can doubt that this late Stone Age passage tomb, the most important archaeological monument in Ireland and certainly the most famous, as well as one of the most splendid in Western Europe, was built to honour the dead as was the custom of the Neolithic farmers who settled here and looked to the land for sustenance yet also created a symbolic structure that expressed their beliefs.
There are some 250 passage tombs or graves in Ireland, the finest of which are in Co Sligo at Carrowkeel and Carrowmore and, of course, in Co Meath. Newgrange is part of the remarkable Brú na Bóinne - the fort or town of the Boyne - complex that also includes Knowth and Dowth. It is a special place, the point where the river sweeps into a bend. Elsewhere in Co Meath is the vast cemetery of Loughcrew. The passage tombs are not only feats of engineering, they are also eloquent testaments to the sophisticated world view of the ancient society which built them. Here, some five centuries ago, lived a lofty people who honoured their dead, partook of grand ceremonies and possessed a grasp of life and death, of the natural and the spiritual world, that appears to be far beyond us, their puny descendents.
Situated in rich grazing land on the highest point of a long low, yet undulating ridge about 1,000 metres from the Boyne's north bank, Newgrange occupies a site that was clearly selected for the purpose of erecting a mighty memorial and one that would mark the winter solstice sunrise. Although the main tumulus of Knowth, which lies upstream on another ridge about 1,000 metres to the north-west, is equal in size, also claims a range of decorated stones, has two long passages, is surrounded by a far denser complex of satellite tombs and clearly suggests a far longer period of habitation, it is Newgrange that emerges as the major site.
This is because of the existence of the roof box and a deceptively simple opening under it that draws our attention to a miracle that was probably originally designed to cast light on the dead while also re-awakening the hopes of the living.
Comparable to a large letter-box, it is through this aperture that the precious shaft of light, symbol of ritual and belief as well as hope and re-birth, enters the passage way and illuminates the chamber. The history of Newgrange seems to reside in two worlds: in the story of life as lived 5,000 years ago andin more recent times, as its discovery captured the imagination of Ireland's pioneering antiquarians and continues to preoccupy generations of archaeologists as well as the millions of visitors who have made their way to the banks of the Boyne to glimpse a legacy.
In his beautiful travelogue-cum-field history, The Beauties of the Boyne and the Blackwater, published in 1849, William Wilde referred to Newgrange as: "this stupendous relic of pagan times probably one of the oldest Celtic monuments in the world, which has elicited the wonder, and called forth the admiration of all who have visited it. It has attracted visitors from every land."
Wilde writes of it with his characteristic enthusiasm but he also includes the facts. Just as we now defer to him and his extraordinary 19th-century contemporaries, Wilde wrote of an earlier antiquary, the Welsh scholar Edward Llhwyd who was keeper of the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford at the turn of the 18th century. In a letter dated Sligo, March 12th 1699, the Welsh antiquary, wrote: "I also met with one monument in this kingdom, very singular; it stands in a place called New Grange, near Drogheda, and it is a mount, or barrow, of very considerable height, encompassed with vast stones, pitched on end, round the bottom of it, and having another, lesser, standing on the top."
Among the many elements that make Wilde's account so fascinating is that he records his first visit, in 1837, at least 138 years after Llhwyd. Wilde's first impression was of utter neglect: "the entrance was greatly obscured by brambles" and he also refers to "a heap of loose stones which had ravelled out from the adjoining mound."
Newgrange, it seems, has drifted in and out of prominence a few times in its long history. Ironic, considering that such is the tourism pressure on the site, Dúchas, the Heritage Service, now controls this traffic through the use of a visitor centre on the other side of the river from which visitors are transported by shuttle bus to the monument. Millions have made the odyssey, visitors such as the young German journalist Bettina Poeschel, whose imagination and interest in our culture drew her earlier this year towards this sacred place. But the appalling savagery and cowardice of others killed her - may she rest in peace.
The initial discovery of what was thought to be a cave at Newgrange in 1699 had nothing to do with scholarly research. The then landowner Charles Campbell was in need of stones for building work. Aware of the existence of the very material he required on an old mound on his farm, he asked his labourers to gather some. In doing so, the men inadvertently revealed the entrance to the tomb.
Nothing much might have happened but for the fortunate coincidence that Llhwyd was touring Ireland at the time. He was very excited, visited the site, wrote to his friends and at least four of his letters are believed to exist. There are some discrepancies. Wilde refers to "a letter of March 1699", while Michael J. O'Kelly, author of Newgrange - Archaeology, Art and Legend (London, 1982) dates the first of these letters from December 1699. Either way, the fact remains, Newgrange had been discovered some 300 years ago, and though studied by Wilde and co in the 19th century and later by Prager and Ó Riórdáin, was not meticulously excavated until O'Kelly began work in 1962.
In his book, which remains the definitive account of Newgrange, O'Kelly records the theory that surrounded the significance of the light alignment at the site. "A belief," he writes in a passage that highlights the relationship between local myth or legend and fact, "existed in the neighbourhood that the rising sun, at some unspecified time, used to light up the three-spiral stone in the end recess. No one could be found who had witnessed this but it continued to be mentioned and we assumed that some confusion existed between Newgrange and the midsummer phenomenon at Stonehenge . . . it was clear that no such comparison was valid but when we began to think about it, we realised that it might be worthwhile to investigate the winter solstice when the sun rises in that quarter. We first did so in 1967. On 21st December 1969, we recorded the following observations on tape.
"At exactly 8.54 hours GMT the top edge of the ball of sun appeared above the local horizon and at 8.58 hours, the first pencil of direct sunlight shone through the roof-box, and along the passage to reach across the tomb chamber floor as far as the front edge of the basin stone in the end recess. As the thin line of light widened to a 17 centimetre-band and swung across the chamber floor, the tomb was dramatically illuminated and various details of the side and end recesses could be clearly seen in the light reflected from the floor. At 9.09 hours, the 17 centimetre-band of light began to narrow again and at exactly 9.15 hours, the direct beam was cut off from the tomb. For 17 minutes, therefore at sunrise on the shortest day of the year, direct light can enter Newgrange, not through the doorway, but through the specially contrived slit which lies under the roof-box at the outer end of the passage roof."
The excitement of standing in that chamber is difficult to express. It is curiosity but, more powerfully, emotion that dictates responses.
Arriving in the dark, the great mound clad contentiously in ghostly white quartz looks slightly surreal. The wait outside allows the imagination to see spirits in the dark shadows. These shapes are gradually revealed by the pale, pre-dawn light to be nothing more menacing than large standing stones, resembling both chief mourners and celebrants. The sight of a pale-pink ribbon of light on the hillside across the river facing the monument brings hope. It is as if the bare trees lining the facing ridge are supplicants, also praying for the elusive light.
Inside the tomb, the 19-metre-long passage constructed of large upright Orthostats - many of which are decorated - there is a subtle gradual rise up towards the chamber. It is easy to miss this as most visitors have to bend their heads.
Once in the chamber, the magnificent corbelled ceiling rises dramatically above our heads. Watchers make nervous conversation as we wait. Everyone is willing the sun to shine. Some people offer a commentary. The information is always interesting such as descriptions of previous solstice vigils. Jokes seem funnier than they actually are. Stomachs rumble in protest at the early hour.
The shared goodwill of people experiencing a privilege is palpable. Yet you also wish for silence as the footprints made only minutes before assume an historic relevance as evidence of the centuries past. The golden light, if it comes up along the sloping floor, is inspiring - too private for television cameras, as was proved. Your quest is completed and you know no one can see your tears as they're too busy hiding their own. The light departs, slowly like a whisper.
One year, as we came out into the morning, a small white-faced boy asked "are there any dead bodies inside?" No bodies, but yes, there are many spirits. The ancestors who understood the power of the seasons and the glories of the sky continue to preside over a formidable, enduring achievement.
Footprints in the sand
To experience winter solstice at Newgrange is to feel touched by something beyond routine existence or explanation, writes Eileen Battersby
Winter has finally begun to die. With the arrival of solstice, darkness will commence its gradual release of the Earth. Light will slowly reassert itself over the coming weeks and months. Nature will wake. Soon we will see the first traces of new growth.
Yesterday morning, diverse pilgrims - the curious alongside the committed, some from nearby, others from abroad, working archaeologists, interested amateurs and visitors hoping to share in a mystery shaped by imagination, spirituality and science - gathered once more in the blackness of a December morning at Newgrange, Co Meath. There will be others who will maintain a vigil over the five days of the Winter solstice, but December 21st, the shortest day of the year, has become central to an enduring ritual, only with its passing of a day that is more night can hope return.
As the morning mist rises off the Boyne and eerie shadows are rendered innocent, all who have experienced the privilege of being in the chamber to witness a form of rebirth that has taken place, at times spectacularly, on other occasions, barely discernibly, feel touched by something beyond routine existence or explanation.
Whether the rising sun lights up the chamber of the great monument with its dazzling rose-gold beam of dawn brightness, or the clouds defeat her efforts, light will enter the passage. Even the chill, grey, natural light of a dull morning creeping laboriously up the passage is a cause of celebration, it too will reveal the footprints in the sand to those waiting inside.
Just as the light, be it glorious or watery, brings hope, the same might be said of the people who stand and watch - those inside the chamber or those who wait outside for news from within and are content merely to be present as a phenomenon takes place. In some ways, the division of the watchers, those inside - albeit some having waited 10 years for a ticket - and those without seem to reflect rank or status as understood in Neolithic society.
No one can doubt that this late Stone Age passage tomb, the most important archaeological monument in Ireland and certainly the most famous, as well as one of the most splendid in Western Europe, was built to honour the dead as was the custom of the Neolithic farmers who settled here and looked to the land for sustenance yet also created a symbolic structure that expressed their beliefs.
There are some 250 passage tombs or graves in Ireland, the finest of which are in Co Sligo at Carrowkeel and Carrowmore and, of course, in Co Meath. Newgrange is part of the remarkable Brú na Bóinne - the fort or town of the Boyne - complex that also includes Knowth and Dowth. It is a special place, the point where the river sweeps into a bend. Elsewhere in Co Meath is the vast cemetery of Loughcrew. The passage tombs are not only feats of engineering, they are also eloquent testaments to the sophisticated world view of the ancient society which built them. Here, some five centuries ago, lived a lofty people who honoured their dead, partook of grand ceremonies and possessed a grasp of life and death, of the natural and the spiritual world, that appears to be far beyond us, their puny descendents.
Situated in rich grazing land on the highest point of a long low, yet undulating ridge about 1,000 metres from the Boyne's north bank, Newgrange occupies a site that was clearly selected for the purpose of erecting a mighty memorial and one that would mark the winter solstice sunrise. Although the main tumulus of Knowth, which lies upstream on another ridge about 1,000 metres to the north-west, is equal in size, also claims a range of decorated stones, has two long passages, is surrounded by a far denser complex of satellite tombs and clearly suggests a far longer period of habitation, it is Newgrange that emerges as the major site.
This is because of the existence of the roof box and a deceptively simple opening under it that draws our attention to a miracle that was probably originally designed to cast light on the dead while also re-awakening the hopes of the living.
Comparable to a large letter-box, it is through this aperture that the precious shaft of light, symbol of ritual and belief as well as hope and re-birth, enters the passage way and illuminates the chamber. The history of Newgrange seems to reside in two worlds: in the story of life as lived 5,000 years ago andin more recent times, as its discovery captured the imagination of Ireland's pioneering antiquarians and continues to preoccupy generations of archaeologists as well as the millions of visitors who have made their way to the banks of the Boyne to glimpse a legacy.
In his beautiful travelogue-cum-field history, The Beauties of the Boyne and the Blackwater, published in 1849, William Wilde referred to Newgrange as: "this stupendous relic of pagan times probably one of the oldest Celtic monuments in the world, which has elicited the wonder, and called forth the admiration of all who have visited it. It has attracted visitors from every land."
Wilde writes of it with his characteristic enthusiasm but he also includes the facts. Just as we now defer to him and his extraordinary 19th-century contemporaries, Wilde wrote of an earlier antiquary, the Welsh scholar Edward Llhwyd who was keeper of the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford at the turn of the 18th century. In a letter dated Sligo, March 12th 1699, the Welsh antiquary, wrote: "I also met with one monument in this kingdom, very singular; it stands in a place called New Grange, near Drogheda, and it is a mount, or barrow, of very considerable height, encompassed with vast stones, pitched on end, round the bottom of it, and having another, lesser, standing on the top."
Among the many elements that make Wilde's account so fascinating is that he records his first visit, in 1837, at least 138 years after Llhwyd. Wilde's first impression was of utter neglect: "the entrance was greatly obscured by brambles" and he also refers to "a heap of loose stones which had ravelled out from the adjoining mound."
Newgrange, it seems, has drifted in and out of prominence a few times in its long history. Ironic, considering that such is the tourism pressure on the site, Dúchas, the Heritage Service, now controls this traffic through the use of a visitor centre on the other side of the river from which visitors are transported by shuttle bus to the monument. Millions have made the odyssey, visitors such as the young German journalist Bettina Poeschel, whose imagination and interest in our culture drew her earlier this year towards this sacred place. But the appalling savagery and cowardice of others killed her - may she rest in peace.
The initial discovery of what was thought to be a cave at Newgrange in 1699 had nothing to do with scholarly research. The then landowner Charles Campbell was in need of stones for building work. Aware of the existence of the very material he required on an old mound on his farm, he asked his labourers to gather some. In doing so, the men inadvertently revealed the entrance to the tomb.
Nothing much might have happened but for the fortunate coincidence that Llhwyd was touring Ireland at the time. He was very excited, visited the site, wrote to his friends and at least four of his letters are believed to exist. There are some discrepancies. Wilde refers to "a letter of March 1699", while Michael J. O'Kelly, author of Newgrange - Archaeology, Art and Legend (London, 1982) dates the first of these letters from December 1699. Either way, the fact remains, Newgrange had been discovered some 300 years ago, and though studied by Wilde and co in the 19th century and later by Prager and Ó Riórdáin, was not meticulously excavated until O'Kelly began work in 1962.
In his book, which remains the definitive account of Newgrange, O'Kelly records the theory that surrounded the significance of the light alignment at the site. "A belief," he writes in a passage that highlights the relationship between local myth or legend and fact, "existed in the neighbourhood that the rising sun, at some unspecified time, used to light up the three-spiral stone in the end recess. No one could be found who had witnessed this but it continued to be mentioned and we assumed that some confusion existed between Newgrange and the midsummer phenomenon at Stonehenge . . . it was clear that no such comparison was valid but when we began to think about it, we realised that it might be worthwhile to investigate the winter solstice when the sun rises in that quarter. We first did so in 1967. On 21st December 1969, we recorded the following observations on tape.
"At exactly 8.54 hours GMT the top edge of the ball of sun appeared above the local horizon and at 8.58 hours, the first pencil of direct sunlight shone through the roof-box, and along the passage to reach across the tomb chamber floor as far as the front edge of the basin stone in the end recess. As the thin line of light widened to a 17 centimetre-band and swung across the chamber floor, the tomb was dramatically illuminated and various details of the side and end recesses could be clearly seen in the light reflected from the floor. At 9.09 hours, the 17 centimetre-band of light began to narrow again and at exactly 9.15 hours, the direct beam was cut off from the tomb. For 17 minutes, therefore at sunrise on the shortest day of the year, direct light can enter Newgrange, not through the doorway, but through the specially contrived slit which lies under the roof-box at the outer end of the passage roof."
The excitement of standing in that chamber is difficult to express. It is curiosity but, more powerfully, emotion that dictates responses.
Arriving in the dark, the great mound clad contentiously in ghostly white quartz looks slightly surreal. The wait outside allows the imagination to see spirits in the dark shadows. These shapes are gradually revealed by the pale, pre-dawn light to be nothing more menacing than large standing stones, resembling both chief mourners and celebrants. The sight of a pale-pink ribbon of light on the hillside across the river facing the monument brings hope. It is as if the bare trees lining the facing ridge are supplicants, also praying for the elusive light.
Inside the tomb, the 19-metre-long passage constructed of large upright Orthostats - many of which are decorated - there is a subtle gradual rise up towards the chamber. It is easy to miss this as most visitors have to bend their heads.
Once in the chamber, the magnificent corbelled ceiling rises dramatically above our heads. Watchers make nervous conversation as we wait. Everyone is willing the sun to shine. Some people offer a commentary. The information is always interesting such as descriptions of previous solstice vigils. Jokes seem funnier than they actually are. Stomachs rumble in protest at the early hour.
The shared goodwill of people experiencing a privilege is palpable. Yet you also wish for silence as the footprints made only minutes before assume an historic relevance as evidence of the centuries past. The golden light, if it comes up along the sloping floor, is inspiring - too private for television cameras, as was proved. Your quest is completed and you know no one can see your tears as they're too busy hiding their own. The light departs, slowly like a whisper.
One year, as we came out into the morning, a small white-faced boy asked "are there any dead bodies inside?" No bodies, but yes, there are many spirits. The ancestors who understood the power of the seasons and the glories of the sky continue to preside over a formidable, enduring achievement.
I'm facinated by such things, in fact! Please, tell us more! 
#5
KarenDaphne
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- Registered
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Pebble Tripper
- Location:Canada
Posted 3 March 2005 - 19:49
needtoknow, on 18 February 2005, 10:22, said:
I guess I came to the wrong site looking for help with this. It wasnt a joke and i was and still am very serious about what is going on with all of this...just wanting some answers...anyway i guess ill look elsewhere for answers....
#6
BuckyE
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- Registered
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Menhir Seeker
- Location:Westminster, MD, USA
- Interests:travel, Neolithic archaeology
Posted 23 March 2005 - 21:25
Dear Need,
The folks who hang out here don't know any more about reincarnation or past lives or dreams than anyone else. We're mostly pretty hardheaded (if often flippant) amateur archaeologists. That is, we're interested in what happened in the past; we like to go looking at old things in hopes we'll get a little bit of insight into how people used to live an what they used to believe; we feel that understanding old ways of life migh help out with modern social problems.
In short, this is mostly a "just the facts about the stones, ma'am," kind of place. Now, having said that, if you're interested--as a small part of trying to understand what your dreams might mean--in trying to identify your "dream stones," we might be able to help with that. But we'd need a very detailed description of the "site" as you remember it from your dreams.
How exactly did you "find out" about the language you heard in your dreams? I ask because, whenever we're having what seem like odd experiences in life (deja vu, coincidental dreams) it always helps to make very sure about the chronology of events. For instance, are you positive you remember the exact sound of the word "Kynran" from your first dream? Is it at all possible you mentioned to someone remembering a person in your dream making a funny sound, and that THEY suggested the sound you NOW seem to remember as being spoken in your dream? And, if you agreed their suggestion of the sound could be the one in your dream, did THEY then interpret the sound THEY had suggested?
It's probably going to be tough to go back in memory and be perfectly sure about what's happened. Mostly, human brains have no way to automatically differentiate between memories of "real" events, memories of dreams, memories of imaginations, memories of suggestions, etc. Obviously your current "memories" of your dreams are vivid, but be very careful to try and differentiate between your actual original dreams and your ideas about them that have come from other people.
Then, is it at all possible your dreams are, or contain, confused and run-together memories of old childhood books, old movies, TV shows, memories of ghost stories, pictures from the family Bible, what-have-you? No one in today's world, not even the most isolated hillbillies, lives in a mental vaccuum. And be very careful, although not closed-minded, about other people's suggestions as to "what's going on." Most people who are interested in the "occult," or in "mental powers," also have theological axes to grind and love to make converts. Most of them will deny it, but do think for yourself!
Finally, in the spirit of the identification mentioned above, it's fascinating to wonder about the power of the mind. I had friends (now passed away) who firmly believed their young son had some kind of "knowledge" of at least one place he had never visited. These were very level headed folks, and they swore up and down he had told them many details about a small neighborhood to which they were traveling, and to which none of them had ever been. They said his descriptions turned out to be right on the money. Odd, but there you go.
The most interesting thing about this, and the reason I mention it, is that there was at least an element of confirmation in it: kid tells parents, out of the blue, about stores and streets; kid turns out to be right. If, in your dream, you had actually seen a stone ring that actually exists, and if there were some way to prove you had never seen it in a movies, or a picture, or been told about it; that would be something cool.
The folks who hang out here don't know any more about reincarnation or past lives or dreams than anyone else. We're mostly pretty hardheaded (if often flippant) amateur archaeologists. That is, we're interested in what happened in the past; we like to go looking at old things in hopes we'll get a little bit of insight into how people used to live an what they used to believe; we feel that understanding old ways of life migh help out with modern social problems.
In short, this is mostly a "just the facts about the stones, ma'am," kind of place. Now, having said that, if you're interested--as a small part of trying to understand what your dreams might mean--in trying to identify your "dream stones," we might be able to help with that. But we'd need a very detailed description of the "site" as you remember it from your dreams.
How exactly did you "find out" about the language you heard in your dreams? I ask because, whenever we're having what seem like odd experiences in life (deja vu, coincidental dreams) it always helps to make very sure about the chronology of events. For instance, are you positive you remember the exact sound of the word "Kynran" from your first dream? Is it at all possible you mentioned to someone remembering a person in your dream making a funny sound, and that THEY suggested the sound you NOW seem to remember as being spoken in your dream? And, if you agreed their suggestion of the sound could be the one in your dream, did THEY then interpret the sound THEY had suggested?
It's probably going to be tough to go back in memory and be perfectly sure about what's happened. Mostly, human brains have no way to automatically differentiate between memories of "real" events, memories of dreams, memories of imaginations, memories of suggestions, etc. Obviously your current "memories" of your dreams are vivid, but be very careful to try and differentiate between your actual original dreams and your ideas about them that have come from other people.
Then, is it at all possible your dreams are, or contain, confused and run-together memories of old childhood books, old movies, TV shows, memories of ghost stories, pictures from the family Bible, what-have-you? No one in today's world, not even the most isolated hillbillies, lives in a mental vaccuum. And be very careful, although not closed-minded, about other people's suggestions as to "what's going on." Most people who are interested in the "occult," or in "mental powers," also have theological axes to grind and love to make converts. Most of them will deny it, but do think for yourself!
Finally, in the spirit of the identification mentioned above, it's fascinating to wonder about the power of the mind. I had friends (now passed away) who firmly believed their young son had some kind of "knowledge" of at least one place he had never visited. These were very level headed folks, and they swore up and down he had told them many details about a small neighborhood to which they were traveling, and to which none of them had ever been. They said his descriptions turned out to be right on the money. Odd, but there you go.
The most interesting thing about this, and the reason I mention it, is that there was at least an element of confirmation in it: kid tells parents, out of the blue, about stores and streets; kid turns out to be right. If, in your dream, you had actually seen a stone ring that actually exists, and if there were some way to prove you had never seen it in a movies, or a picture, or been told about it; that would be something cool.
Bucky Edgett
#7
mitsels
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- Registered
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Pebble Tripper
- Location:Belgium
Posted 29 May 2005 - 18:42
(sorry for the strange language but english isn't my first language)
hey mr "need to know" ; need to tell you your story/dream fascinated me a lot.
Though I think nobody gonna have real answers for you. with this kind of stuff the answers are mostly inside of you.
I find it a bit sorry for you that it sounds like it leaves you all searching/desperate . Try to relativate it all and smile at it ... hope you can.
It all sounded Shamanistic to me ; shaman principles where related to stone circles in ancient times
The leader part espaccially ; it is like they (the warriors) saw that you where of great power to them ....
The stones coming up from the earth (a ritual ?)
It sounded all like a vision of some sort because you seem to remember so much details on the whole thing.
Do you always dream that detailed ?
Or did this dream come out extra clear ?
Anyway if you need real answers i geuss you need to go to a hypnotic pre-life therapist or try to become a lucide dreamer.
It reminded me of books by Carlos Castaneda. (shamanistic greatness is when you can laugh problems away is a item i always remember from him)
You are blessed with such imaginative dreaming. (hope you can cope with it)
Wish you lots of strongness
Tim
hey mr "need to know" ; need to tell you your story/dream fascinated me a lot.
Though I think nobody gonna have real answers for you. with this kind of stuff the answers are mostly inside of you.
I find it a bit sorry for you that it sounds like it leaves you all searching/desperate . Try to relativate it all and smile at it ... hope you can.
It all sounded Shamanistic to me ; shaman principles where related to stone circles in ancient times
The leader part espaccially ; it is like they (the warriors) saw that you where of great power to them ....
The stones coming up from the earth (a ritual ?)
It sounded all like a vision of some sort because you seem to remember so much details on the whole thing.
Do you always dream that detailed ?
Or did this dream come out extra clear ?
Anyway if you need real answers i geuss you need to go to a hypnotic pre-life therapist or try to become a lucide dreamer.
It reminded me of books by Carlos Castaneda. (shamanistic greatness is when you can laugh problems away is a item i always remember from him)
You are blessed with such imaginative dreaming. (hope you can cope with it)
Wish you lots of strongness
Tim
#8
Robert Henvell
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- Registered
- 78 posts
Dolmen Expert
Posted 29 May 2005 - 20:21
There are many things on this earth that humans do not comprehend.IMaybe your dreams are the result of something that you read a long time ago.Alternately they may be derived from a genetic memory,which science can not explain.Some people a sixth sense and it is difficult to analysis or understand.Do not let it worry you--enjoy the gift.
#9
stonheng
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- Registered
- 2 posts
Pebble Tripper
Posted 21 July 2005 - 19:13
Dear David,
I just added my first post yesterday, and I'm really bad at these computer things, but here goes!
First of all....your dream is amazing and I believe that you can trust it has a very powerful message in it for you. Depending on your belief system, the dream may be revealing something from a past life or a genetic memory. From a strickly psychological perspective, the dream symbols and the emotional experience you have during the dream is ultimately what is important. What did you feel when you saw the soldiers? What might they represent in your current life? What were they trying to communicate with you? The woman, what were the emotions you felt seeing her? Who or what might she represent for you....a person in your current life? Your own feminine side? At any rate, a dream worth exploring.
I had a similar experience, but part of an exercise in guided imagery. I saw myself atop a hill that overlooked the sea with a small village at the bottom of the hill and to the left. I was sitting at the edge of a stone circle and was approached by an old hermit. He invited me to go into the town and there I would find my heart's desire. I then had what I believe was a past-life vision. I believe this circle really exists and the town too. I have yet to find it, but am looking.
Blessings on your journey of self-discovery!
I just added my first post yesterday, and I'm really bad at these computer things, but here goes!
First of all....your dream is amazing and I believe that you can trust it has a very powerful message in it for you. Depending on your belief system, the dream may be revealing something from a past life or a genetic memory. From a strickly psychological perspective, the dream symbols and the emotional experience you have during the dream is ultimately what is important. What did you feel when you saw the soldiers? What might they represent in your current life? What were they trying to communicate with you? The woman, what were the emotions you felt seeing her? Who or what might she represent for you....a person in your current life? Your own feminine side? At any rate, a dream worth exploring.
I had a similar experience, but part of an exercise in guided imagery. I saw myself atop a hill that overlooked the sea with a small village at the bottom of the hill and to the left. I was sitting at the edge of a stone circle and was approached by an old hermit. He invited me to go into the town and there I would find my heart's desire. I then had what I believe was a past-life vision. I believe this circle really exists and the town too. I have yet to find it, but am looking.
Blessings on your journey of self-discovery!
#10
john1504
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- Location:Cheshire, UK
- Interests:History, reading, writing, metal-detecting.
Posted 25 July 2005 - 10:11
Needtoknow.
There are a number of philosophies that can explain what is happening to you. I will go through some, and you can either select the one which 'feels' right, or use them to follow other paths for your meaning.
There are ancient prophecies which tell of a time when the Earth will face destruction through the abuse of mankind. The people lose their spiritual path and substitute it with materialism.
Native American tradition tells of a group of people/shamen who were known as Twisted Hairs, teachers of the people, respected by all Nations. It is said they will return to us when the Mother Earth needs them.
Shamen of ancient peoples across Europe also held similar beliefs and, if you consider what is happening around the world at present, the Earth is becoming sick.
You are not the only person who has been having these 'weird' dreams recently. My father-in-law, who knows nothing about the ancient peoples, has had a recurring dream where he sees himself standing near Stonehenge, dressed in a whitish robe, and holding a golden dagger in his hand. I asked him to draw the dagger and it matches weapons dating to the early Bronze age.
Could this be a call from the Earth to people who can hear? I don't know and I make no judgement. But it does make one think.
Another possibility is DNA. There are theories that we have genetic memory, and every now and again something will trigger off one of them. For example; recognising a place and describing its surroundings, even though you are 100% certain you have never been there before. Or dreams of events as you are having.
There is the reincarnation theory. Totally different from genetic memory, it also uses the desciption of strange places and events as a sign of having lived there in a previous life.
Some of the images in your 'dreams' can be the result of your unconcious mind looking for familiar objects/people as reference points.
One thing for sure. There are a lot of people who will envy you. Your dreams could unlock some of the puzzles that have plagued archaeologists for years..
What I would ask of you is this. Where possible, keep a note of how people were dressed, and what items they were carrying. How were the soldiers dressed and what weapons did they carry?
There are a number of philosophies that can explain what is happening to you. I will go through some, and you can either select the one which 'feels' right, or use them to follow other paths for your meaning.
There are ancient prophecies which tell of a time when the Earth will face destruction through the abuse of mankind. The people lose their spiritual path and substitute it with materialism.
Native American tradition tells of a group of people/shamen who were known as Twisted Hairs, teachers of the people, respected by all Nations. It is said they will return to us when the Mother Earth needs them.
Shamen of ancient peoples across Europe also held similar beliefs and, if you consider what is happening around the world at present, the Earth is becoming sick.
You are not the only person who has been having these 'weird' dreams recently. My father-in-law, who knows nothing about the ancient peoples, has had a recurring dream where he sees himself standing near Stonehenge, dressed in a whitish robe, and holding a golden dagger in his hand. I asked him to draw the dagger and it matches weapons dating to the early Bronze age.
Could this be a call from the Earth to people who can hear? I don't know and I make no judgement. But it does make one think.
Another possibility is DNA. There are theories that we have genetic memory, and every now and again something will trigger off one of them. For example; recognising a place and describing its surroundings, even though you are 100% certain you have never been there before. Or dreams of events as you are having.
There is the reincarnation theory. Totally different from genetic memory, it also uses the desciption of strange places and events as a sign of having lived there in a previous life.
Some of the images in your 'dreams' can be the result of your unconcious mind looking for familiar objects/people as reference points.
One thing for sure. There are a lot of people who will envy you. Your dreams could unlock some of the puzzles that have plagued archaeologists for years..
What I would ask of you is this. Where possible, keep a note of how people were dressed, and what items they were carrying. How were the soldiers dressed and what weapons did they carry?
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