58 replies to this topic

[123hopp]

Yes, Kevin.A very complex image around those places, indeed. But I was trying to specify for Peregrine a start point to his own experimentation. For a beginner, elimination of most of those details is crucial. He is about to experience his first contact with one dowsable line and - my proposition, yin- and yang- quality spaces.
OK. Very, very clever. These words I`ve used once, when analyzing plans of medieval towns vs. castles laying aside, situations of princely manors with respect to their subject adobes and - especially - space layouts of castles, which were built by Teutonic Order and Johannites, when back in Europe from the Holy Land.
But such details call rather for a personal chat at a bottle of retsina; or was it red wine for you!?

[kevin.b]

123hopp, stone cold sober , on my childrens lives, and my grand childrens lives, I know in great detail every measurement of dozens of norman churchs, both here and in france.
I have visited many cathedrals also, and can map them out in under an hour.
The spirals down the lines are always in groups of four by the way, 4,8,12,16,20 etc, this then determines the size of the floor plan, in Caen in Normandy, the number of spirals down the cathedral centre line was huge, and all the iron work inside reflects this, totally covered in spirals.
I agree with you about starting dowsing, it is so confusing at first, when the rods align to seemingly nothing.
A good compass, is a wise investment, I have a large ships one that settles fast and clearly shows the angles of my rods, to compass north of coarse.
Nearly all the churchs are aligned to 90 degrees, and 270 degrees, if there is bell tower doors on the west end, the line should be smack in the centre of the doors, as I said very clever dowsers.
After all these sites were built, the art of dowsing was almost demonised, they could hardly admit that the churchs were built to pagen alignments ?
Once confidence is derived , and you are comfortable with the rods, then it is practise, practise , practise.
It got to a point with me that I was hunting down ancient sites and preachers crosses, castles, hill forts, holy wells, and of course our norman churchs.
If you start to align churchs on maps, don't fall into an easy trap, it is not the church itself that is on a line, it is one of the crossing points outside the church, you can see this with many old stones that are left in the graveyards, they must have felt they should leave some to placate the locals, who will have known the relevance at the time.
Then once you are confident with the actual lines comes the big jump, that which is runnig along the lines, this is a different signal, it is the two dragons, or ying and yang, many names all over the globe, I am certain it is plasma.
Kevin

[123hopp]

Yes; those curious mark spots outside churches. Here we have our Scandinavian runestones around churches but also quite anonymous low "directional" stone plates. In Greece, I`ve noticed anonymous heaps of rubble outside chapels, which mark e.g. a point, where the "lance" of St.George penetrates the body of the yin-dragon.
Those many spirals inside churches. I admit, I haven`t attached much attention to them, as I`m really not a devotee of any artificial religion. My rule is : - Be a "prophet" for yourself or leave it. (I accept a comparative study of religions, of course)  But in context of planning households, I`ve used spirals to enhance mental abilities of the inhabitants, i.e. placing spots for doing schoolchildren`s homework or locating some innovative activities for adults.
I`ve met situations in some places, where people had their beds over such spirals with the result of very unsatisfactory sleep rest. Now, I`m already done with helping people in planning their households. At first I wondered why they were so ambivalent at letting me do this. Then it came out for me that I was really a pawn in a power game between a wife and her husband. Only one of them was really accepting my presence. Then I`ve discovered that it`s the underconscious Fate Game. Mean frequency of your presence at crucial spots in a household determines your life`s way both inside and on the outside...well, more or less.
A turning point in my attitude came really when I`ve got some reclamations because of people divorcing themselves. Apparently, my new layouts, which they had implemented, had used too many spots causing faster circulation in their "auras" and removal of hindrances in this circulation. Thus, blockades they`d  "constructed" in their auras after many years of male-female running-in - all of a sudden disappeared. It`s not funny. Well, in this way one only can learn where to stop, to not interfere with others`lives too much.
Now I`ve masted my yacht (Aphrodite 22 (feet); 500 kgs lead in balast; doing well against 16 sekundmeter) - just a skärgård sailing boat and am beginning a new sailing season with my son and grandson, starting this weekend. So; from now on I`ll frequent the Net not so intensely. Bye

[123hopp]

What I was really doing here in this Forum!?  Well, trying to assist the ARCHEOLOGICAL QUEST for MEANING with some broadening vistas, I suppose. Some examples.  - Show me the gods that were worshipped at Stonehenge or Avebury. Well, do you think people using those constructions  were just astronomers - as we know them today; only working with simpler tools and they didn`t care about any gods!? Yes; it`s so easy to forget that as recently as some 300 years ago, all social life and all branches of science in Europe were permeated by religion and all human activities were officially subjected to one prospect - getting a good score qualifying for heavenly afterlife.

Maybe a key to this discrepance lies in the expression of Brennus - the leader (280 BCE) of the great Celtic army, which ravaged Macedonia and penetrated Greece, at the sight of a first classic Greek temple : - " Are your gods so feeble that you can imprison them in those stone sculptures and silly houses!?" I know, "ethnographic parallels" to an archaeologist are like a red rag to a bull. But if you read Sir Frazer or Malinowski as before, you`d know that what we discussed here - Kevin and me, was something called "MANA".   Maybe there`s some deeper meaning in the fact that just in Polynesia, where the "megalithic impulse" survived nearly to this day, the notion of mana-forces is still very vivid in everyday life. I have in my library a book : "Kingship and Sacrifice. Ritual and Society in Ancient Hawaii" - Valerio Valeri, The University of Chicago Press, 1985, ISBN 0-226-84560-5, - where the problem of mana is adressed to in many places.

And if you look closer - comparative study of religions could be also helpful to an archaeologist - it`ll come out that so despised primitive animism of our ancestors is the basis of all most sublimated religions in the world. BTW It`s quite an interesting problem, when and why some parts of the worldwide mana-net underwent a process of personification into local "genius loci" and then alienation into more abstract gods.

Let it be the conclusion of my input into the current discussion for now.
Bye

[Peregrine]

Hi 123hopp,

Thanks for your most erudite/educated input.
I'm sure your contributions so far have given us all some serious food for thought.
Enjoy sailing with your son and grandson.

Again, many thanks.

All best,  peregrine.  

[kevin.b]

123hopp, many thanks , and I hope the winds of this planet blow you back our way, you are most welcome .
( four winds, the ancient chinese game , where you have nine circles, nine flowers, three dragons)
Kevin

[archaeo]

<<<< Severus wrote:   how many of the people who constructed their local stone ring actually seen another one in another part of the country. travel was restricted and suggested that only those associated with trade, politics or religion regularly travelled and even then only over fairly short distances. >>>>

This seems like an assumption.  Perhaps travel was not restricted.  What evidences that travel was restricted?

<<<<  was placement according to a national/global prescription or according to local demands, needs and availability of land >>>>

Good question.  There is an inherent assumption in this question too, that being that there is one answer.  Given the long epoch of construction, there may be considerable differences for different monuments.  The same may be so for geographical ranges, and for monument scale.

Complexity of the cultural expression, spatially, temporally, and sylistically, makes simple answers impossible.  Trying to answer these questions requires starting somewhere, and the best place, assumedly, may be the most important/largest of the sites.  And the question requires rigorous science, not dowsing other non-consensual realities.  That in mind, these recent geodetic results from http://jqjacobs.net/.../neolithic.html

"GPS Updates: April 24, 2006 ... center of Newgrange Mound ... Knowth Mound, Dowth Mound, and Dowth Henges GPS coordinates ... obtained. The arc from Knowth Mound to Windmill Hill equals 3.60006° or CIR/99.9985, an excess of only 6.1 m. And the distance from Knowth to Newgrange equals 1/1000 of earth's diameter, therefore the distance from Newgrange to Windmill Hill is 314.19 times that from Newgrange to Knowth. From Avebury to Dowth Henge equals 3.59647 degrees. The fundamental astronomy, the modules, and notation are further explained in the Archaeogeodesy series."

"March 19, 2006.  After determining more accurate coordinates for Avebury, Silbury Hill and Windmill Hill, I determined their site-to-site relationships (reflected in results discussed above). Additionally, the Avebury to Silbury Hill arc equals 0.01307° (0.00100 R27), 1/1000th of lunar orbit per earth rotation. The Windmill Hill to Silbury Hill arc equals 0.02900° or 1/1000 of earth orbit per full moon period (0.00100 S29). These two arc distances and the placement of the three monuments presents precise fractions of astrogeodetic modules based on the three fundamental cosmic motions..."  

Archaeogeodesy Pages

[kevin.b]

Archeo, Hi, "the question requires rigorous science, not dowsing "
Well, you have the ultimate in science, in your satallite gps ?
It is producing evidence that sites all around globe are sited to precise alignment, and that these alignments conform to this planets, and corresponding luner bodies movements and cycles ?
This then leads to a further question;- how did they manage that ?
Either they had gps, or similer, or there is another way ?
Are we in agreement so far ?
If they had gps, then we need to rip up all known history and start again ?
I will argue that there is another way, it is simple, more accurate than gps, to a tenth of an inch .
It is called dowsing, it is more accurate than any known science.
I, personally could take on all the computing power now available on the whole planet, coupled to all the laser available tools, all the satelites and beat them, easily.
With two welding rods.
There is a matrix system around this planet, who's measure complies to fibonacci sequence, and 1.618, .618.
It made you, have you forgotten ?
Kevin

[archaeo]

kevin.b, on 23 May 2006, 21:57, said:

Archeo, .... I, personally could take on all the computing power now available on the whole planet, coupled to all the laser available tools, all the satelites and beat them, easily.  With two welding rods....

Two welding rods, eh!  Your mother must be really proud.  But that is easy to say and impossible to prove.  Of course, non-consensual reality is like that; it does not require any proof because your underlying paradigm is that your reality is correct.  This is circular reasoning, at best, and typical of subjective, delusional thinking, sensu belief in a misconception and unlike illusion as based on false perception of something having objective existence.  

No, ancient cultures did not have GPS (or welding rods).  However, our culture was able to determine latitude and longitude accurately before we had GPS.  It is therefore logical to conclude that other cultures could have done so also.  The West relied on mechanical clocks to compare time with sufficient accuracy.  Of course, that was while emerging from a Dark Age of astronomical ignorance, so they could not understand the lunar motions with suficient sophstication to use a natural clock.  I've had this discussion before, so I'll just post a post hereafter:

"2006.3.21
Re: Geodesy ....
<<< The million dollar question, is, of course, how would they have measured (longitude) ... I can see no mechanism that pre-dates the high accuracy sea going clock ... >>>

I'll take that million now. I've written of this online, but so far no check has arrived, and I've been waiting eight years (when I published online :-). The answer was so obvious, I couldn't stop kicking myself, so I'm not really expecting the check. Quoting previous writing...

"... Longitude determination requires making a comparison of measurements of the position of a celestial object from two points on the earth together with a temporal inter-reference of the measurements. This problem is easier on land (a fixed position) than at sea. On land from a fixed position, measurements can be averaged over long periods of observation...."

The high accuracy sea-going clocks were needed by people who
1.) did not know where they were,
2.) required instantaneous determination,
3.) were moving on water in directions they could not control or perceive entirely.

It is an entirely different problem. Solving triangles requires three knowns. They did not know where the where. Therefore, without celestial-earth inter-reference,

4.) they did not know what time it was either.

On land, you know where you are and your position is fixed. You can take all the time you want and need, and you can look to the sky and see what time it is. So,

1.) you know where you are,
2.) you have all the time in the cosmos,
3.) your not going anywhere unless you decide to move your positioned point,
4.) you know what time it is.

A very wise man in China taught me one BIG lesson. Zu Chongzhi (430-510 CE) measured gnomon shadows for 24 day spans around the solstice, and calculated mean values to refine the value of the tropical year. It gave me great joy to read that. I realized, on land you can observe the moon for, oh, say, 18.613 years, and calculate mean values too, but not from a moving ship at sea.

[Vlad]

Hi, guys
The last controversy is fairly obvious. Archaeo doesn`t take into consideration the possibility of using human senses in more refined a way than it`s usual among e.g. big city dwellers. What did humans do under millions of years when new stone tools were developed so slowly!? My answer is they developed their bodies (senses, minds)to get "bio-tools" optimal for their environment. But in human development there`s one peculiarity. Once in a while, at a threshold of a new development period, we as if push off our previous achievements from the range of the everyday conscioussness. Only in this way, we can evolve a new fragment of human abilities - e.g. to go on without any "gods" as after the French revolution.

Now, it`s possible for some individuals under special circumstances to call back those human abilities of the past from a subconscious store. And - more prosaically, we all still nowadays can selectively as if magnify our sensibility - mostly that of our sight. It`s simple. Try to make a sculpture. At first, make the quality of it even all over it. Then, try to refine a fragment. The rest of the sculpture would "cry" to you to do the same there. After some years you`d get some kind of a miracle precious thing. And in the process you`d train your sight to discern minutiest differences in the texture of the surface.

But then, there is such important thing as running-in a convention for our senses. Our sense of smell is as if a prolonged part of our very brain, i.e. there are no "filters of meaning" between our nose and the brain, while our sight is organically determined to be selective through the construction of the eye. So, from all senses, we have best chances of refining with our sense of smell. Put a strict code/convention over it and you have a precise tool.

Turning back to techniques of mind-altering of our distant ancestors, we could probably discover our forgotten capabilities in automatic
enhancing of our sensing tools through selective directing of our concentration. And only a fool ( like this proverbial ambitious pupil to a sorcerer) would use drugs to do this. It suffice to use those special places left for us in the countryside. Have patience, turn down your
life`s pace, try to stay say one month in a "special" place and then start to analyze your new world-view based on refreshed capabilities of your senses.  Well, maybe offer a cock to Asklepios, too - as Hippokrates would expect from you.

[kevin.b]

Archaeo, My mother was very proud of me, when she was alive, and I believe she will be also now.
You mention a couple of things quite often, delusional thinking, and non-consensual reality.
I operate in neither of these areas, I operate in fact.
I can measure to unbelivable accuracy, in perfect straight lines ( they must curve around globe , or beam in all way around globe ) I can follow these lines up hill and down dale, through all obsticles.
I can and have done this across water, many times, the english channel been the longest length.
I have done this until I am blue in the face, so please don't say that I can't do this, I am weary of been called a liar, by people who have no proof, of if I can or can't, they are the deluded.
The straight lines are just one signal that I can detect, they produce a matrix system of awesome proportions, and by simply switching my thought, I can track many different parts of the resultant matrix system, also by switching my thoughts I can then track what flows along these lines.
I am very fortunate to live in a very old property, it is directly in line with the centre of a norman church, just yards from my house, and all the resultant occurances that happen along these lines happen right here in my house, so at my leisure, and with great accuracy I have measured what I detect, I have subsequently found that they comply totally to fibonacci sequence, and golden ratio, both of which I had not heard of until I started trying to analize the measurements of what i detect.
So , please, don't say that I can't do something, when I can prove that I can, any time any where, to anybody.
I have traped around so many megalithic sites and norman churchs, checking and re-checking every alignment and measure until I am sick of the site of them.
I do all this with no pay, or under no pressure , I ask no payment and want no fame, but, and it's a really big but, what I am detecting is that which makes everything, it has brought every so called drop of energy here that we are wasting, it has and will provide everything we will ever need, for free, and all you have to do to find it, is look, with dowsing tools.
Drop the sceptism, try it, I will show anyone that wants to try.
I do not lie, I am not deluded, don't delude yourself any longer.
Kevin

[stonecarver]

That's interesting stuff Kevin... but, what exactly is the point you are trying to make?

You say that you can detect these energy lines. So... what exactly?

Being able to detect them is one thing (and if a person says they can show something is there doesn't mean it Really IS), it's just their Perception, their reality.

But - what is the point you are making. If we all suspend belief, and accept they exist (for the sake of argument), what is your point?

[Vlad]

Kevin; you`re missing one point. What if all those lines and sacred centres are only projections of your mind!? And, quite naturally, they cannot be felt by other people. Yes; projections - let`s try to stick to this track. You should keep in mind that we humans cannot prove anything with absolute certainty. We are only forming hypotheses about the world and trying if they are working. So; if your descriptions are true, you could predict something with the help of them or propose a practical use for them!?

If we diminish your discoveries to the level of supposed projections, we could say that humanity have known these projections all the time. They were not explicated as a geometrical system in our modern European tradition,though.(Until ley lines of Watkins!?) But they were verbalized all the time in this way or another. If we`re told that God is omnipresent or (Holy Ghost) permeates the World, this was a summary of such visions as yours.

And "normal" people don`t need any broader explanation on this. It`s the truth of high priests and prophets, you are talking about, Kevin. And only because we have enough of our European laic experiment now, those projections are being discussed anew. And I`m not so fond of it, really. You cannot send all the humanity to the Arran Islands to be anachoretes there, Kevin.

One wise guy once said the core of our identities are "monads without windows". So; it would be a dream or projection of your monad, you`re talking about, Kevin. But I disagree. Our "monads" have windows. But its diameter is very small. And we need this "window", i.e. focus of our conscience, to direct it at fragments of reality we are socially engaged into.

Write a book, Kevin; like so many around. But it will be the "naked truth" not rubbish like Harry Potter or Da Vinci code, I hope!?

[Vlad]

P.S.
I`ve got even a title for you. TALES from the WILDERNESS. How does it sound!? It`s like "Aranyaka" in hinduistic traditions. And before you proceed any longer, close all dowsing and New Age books in a big chest and seal it. Write down only the testimony of your SENSES, taking care especially about repeatability of your visions. Only then you can start to convince anyone.
Capisci!?

[kevin.b]

Stonecarver, My point is the content of this and similer megalithic sites.
I first encountered the lines on a hill where I now know were many longbarrows and other stone constructions, these were knocked down during the second world war, by what were known as prairy busters, there was a huge push to clear as much land as possible, to grow as much as we could.
I have traced most of the stones relating to this site and hope shortly to be able to publish details of them.
Finding the lines set me off on a quest to find how they related and aligned to ancient sites, this expanded to preachers crosses, holy wells, churchs, hill forts and at this time to crop circles.
Almost all the ancient sites listed above conform to what I detect, precisely.
As they do, I have realised that what I detect was once common place, but I still couldn't work out what they were built for.
Then whilst wandering around several so called hill fort sites, I began to work out what had been going on.
I realised that they had been able to manipulate a force that runs along the lines, once this part had fallen into place i was quickly able to work out the details and reasons behind all the effort, basically it was to survive, and to enchanch their lives and all their stock and cereals etc.
Because I am able to detect many different parts of this system, and switch at will between them, I have been able to put together what other dowsers have only had a part of available.
There are two predominant patterns that the lines create, circles and spirals.
If you go to rock art in this country and Ireland you can see these portrayed at long barrows especially.
As it may be only a tiny portion of the population that are able to dowse, and an even smaller amount that can dowse like I can, it is reasonable to work out why and how this ability has almost been lost ?
I can explain in detail , why all the ancient sites were built, why they are in the precise spot they are, why they align to so many others, here and all around the globe.
This is because of a matrix system of lines, they cross in such a way as to create what is best visualised at occuring at crop circles( the real ones, and I will be able to explain the difference , to man-made ones )
I can measure in great detail that which i detect, and am humbled by it, it is truly awesome.
It has been called by countless names , the most recent and commonly known is GOD.
All the modern day scientists have been blind to a subtle force that is not recordable except by what it created, life.
The information contained in sites such has this , is incalcuable in its signifigance, this force made everything, for ever and ever, all the fossil fuels we are wasting it made, it has the power to give everything we could ever need, it is us, it made us.
It also takes us back, and if we re-learn what ancient mankind knew, we again will be able to use it for the benifit of all, it is subtle, and therefore can't be abused by greedy , war mongering idiots, like we have now.
But it can be stored ( silbury hill, pyramids ) and re-directed along its natural pathways.
The dangerous lower flow, can be entised to earth, in long barrows, these are capped with successive layers of chalk and organic material to make sure as much as possible earths and does not escape out.
That Stonecarver is a mere part of my reason, there is much more.
Kevin