8 replies to this topic

[123hopp]

Here`s a quotation from Mircea Eliade ( "Images et symboles", chapter II - Symbolism of the Centre):

"As we remember, the Old King - aware of the secret of the Holy Grail, was laying down in a heavy mysterious faintness. Not only he was suffering - all around him had fallen in decay and got disintegrated: - the castle, its towers and gardens. Animals stopped to multiply, trees failed to bear fruit and springs dried out. Many medical advisers tried to cure the Fisher King but without slightest success. Day and night knights were arriving and they were beginning their visits from asking about the health of the King. Only one of them - poor, known to nobody and of a slightly laugh-awakening demeanor - allowed himself to disregard the etiquette and rules of good conduct. It was Perceval. Not caring about courtly manners, he went up boldly to the King and approaching him asked plainly : - "WHERE IS THE GRAIL!?"
As soon as those words ceased, everything got changed. The King got up from his bed of sickness, rivers and fountains began to flow anew, vegetation became regenerated and the castle - as if by a miracle, regained his former splendor.
Mere a few words of Perceval were enough for the whole Nature to be reborn again. But these few words constitute the basic question;
the only one noteworthy problem: - Where is this, which is real par excellence; Sacrum, the Center of Life and the Source of Immortality!?
Where the Holy Grail could be found!?
Before Perceval arrived, to nobody`s mind occur to put forth this basic question. The world was declining because of this metaphysical indifference, lack of imagination and disappearance of yearning for Reality..."

In his books and essays, Mircea Eliade returns on and on again to the symbolism of the Centre. And I wonder if in Arthurian legend complex we could discern some ideas, which could spark and feed the activity of megalith builders!? Sacred centres and approaches to them is a main theme in landscapes transformed by megalithic ideas, isn`t it!?

[123hopp]

Now I`m looking for some classic descriptions on the correspondence between human body - home - settlement - countryside - land - cosmos. In "Das Heilige und das Profane" by Mircea Eliade, I`ve found such chapters :
I.6     " Our world" lies always in a centre
IV.3     A Body - home - Kosmos

I`m sure one can find better quotations; e.g. within classic dowsing literature!? Yes, I`m really counting on you, guys, that you contribute to this thread with some literary support to my general thesis: -
Megalithic ideas haven`t  been lost to us. On the one side they`ve found continuation within disparate mystery traditions, while on the other - they`ve been stored within our very "bones".

Isn`t this refreshing to see someone picking instinctively a place on a sofa, where otherwise a stone in a circle would stand!? Or placing a round table in a living room just exactly in the middle of such a potential circle structure!? OK then; perhaps most of us registered small fights about those "special places" in our houses. It`s my chair!! t`s my chair!! No, says Daddy - It belongs to the Head of this family!!

Oups..got to go.

[123hopp]

OK, then. Let`s go back to Mircea Eliade. From "The Sacred and the Profane" I`ve extracted the following Homeric "winged words" :  -

" The "real" world lies always in the middle, in a centre, because only there the breaking through the planes (of reality)and establishing of
communication between the three cosmic zones are possible. Palestine, Jerusalem and the Temple - all of them are images of the Universe and of its Centre. This multitude of centerpoints; this repeating of the World Image in ever smaller dimensions - this is the characteristic feature of traditional societies...People of those societies were aware of their land`s position in the Centre of the Earth; they knew that their town is the Navel of the Earth. But most of all, they were sure that their temple and the ruler`s palace constituted real centerpoints of the world. Traditional man wanted also his home to lie in the middle and constitute Imago Mundi - microcosmic image of the Universe. He could live only in such spaces, which were "open" upwards; in which this breaking through the reality planes and contact with the Otherworld could be (permanently) guaranteed."

Uff; hard stuff - isn`t it!? And, of course, it`s not taking into account another possible version of the "reality" - a world, which was open "downwards - to the chthonian zone. Why!? Well; fertility/fecundity it was (and still is - as a social security in the IIIrd World) the major problem of "traditional" societies. And take a look at the Temple of once revered Lernean Hydra - the poor thing killed by Herkules. Take a good look at the Sacred Hearth of Lerna and you`ll see what local megalithic(!?) traditions were all about.

[123hopp]

But my favourite megalithic(!?)survival  within Greek mythology is MEDOUSA. Its role as an apotrophaic emblem is well known (e.g. at the Artemis temple in Korkyra). She watched probably also over mysteries of Athena in Athens, from the Virgin`s shield. But Medousa`s faculty of changing people into stones points more obviously to connections with the megalithic ideology.
Well; European megalithic folklore has it that menhirs or circle stones are in a fact lithified people. And reasons for that were mostly some
transgressions of cult prescriptions.
In Celtic countries though, narratives involving stones as containers for souls awaiting reincarnation are also known. If so; could we form a hypothese that Medousa ( Ruleress!?) played once a major role both as a giver and a taker of life in Mediterranean megalithic traditions!?
I wonder if a similar spiritual entity can be found in Irish legends and folklore!? Alas, I know but a little about this tradition. So; could you help me out!?
Thanks in advance

[123hopp]

Can we talk about a Megalithic Era - as a term intercgangeable with Younger Stone Age or other similar ones!? I don`t think so. From my sources comes out that first complete megalithic structures popped out south of Sahara desert just after 7, 000 BCE. Next stop was North Africa and very soon they`ve found their way into...Labrador and further south in North America!? Oldest megaliths are grouped along the Atlantic shores. First European megalithic graves are dated to the Vth millenium BCE but their elements were known much earlier. A circle embodying the principle  of mandala with marked centrum and four cardinal directions is reaching back to the Middle Paleolithic.
Sacred vertical markers (wooden poles) were known in Younger Paleolithic. Old stone stelai with a "vulva" mark were known already in pre-megalithic Europe...
Dates for Asian countries are much later and "megalithic impulse"- coming from the West, lingered on in Oceania until quite recently. "Ex occidente lux" - as some writers maintain.
In this situation, talking about "megalithic ideas" - ever present in the history of mankind, rather than of a historical megalithic era, has its sense!? What do you think!?

[123hopp]

As a male, I`m frequently wondering about the ways our ancestors incorporated the Moon into their symbolic thinking. As for the Sun - it`s simple; here comes a day  when sunrays are penetrating into a megalithic womb and a new mythical life cycle is started. But as for the Moon; it seems that it`s not enough with moonrays. A more physical presence of his on Earth is required, if the Moon`s influence is to be taken seriously into consideration!?

If I`m not considering to undergo initiation into mysteries of Hekate, what to do otherwise!? What do we have in Mircea Eliade in this genre!? Well; in his "Images and Symbols" there`s an essay " Notes on the symbolism of molluscs" with such chapters:
- The Moon and the Waters; Symbolism of Fecundity; Ritual functions of Shells, etc.
Then, in his "Myths, dreams and mysteries" there`s Chapt.VIII: " Mother Earth and cosmic hierogamies" and maybe I could find something on the role of the Moon in such parts like: - "Terra genetrix"; Underground womb - The "Embrions"; Labyrinths !? ..Hmm

Aaah; Stonecarver. You`ve nailed me to my physical place in the Universe; so let`s better look around. Aha; those enigmatic stone balls of Gotland, found in the fields...Maybe they deserve a closer look!? And as I`m not a scientist and not interested in watching if my collegues have made a half-step forward...I`ll leave this Moon theme as it is; I mean - suspensed in Aither!?

[123hopp]

No offence, Stonecarver. It was once upon a time, when I was making use of the Niedersächsische Landesbibliothek in Göttingen and living at student`s  campus nearby Max Planck`s Institut down there. My neighbour - a "doktorand"( I don`t know how it`s called in your ivory towers!?) - used to make two pauses of 30 minutes a day. We used to meet at the yard and he usually ended our discussions with something like : "I wonder how far Yakimoto down in X  Institute in Tokyo advanced his work during this 30 minutes!?"
I was trying to arrange for a common excursion to this place, where legendary Tings (Tagungen) of Goths were once located. All in vain.
A pity. We really need a living experience of a "special" place in our lives, to get a drive forward in our profane activities.

And at the Tingsplatz, there was a big flat rounded stone - covered with small holes, standing upright. In local guides, it was described as a paleolithic remnant and holes should be filled now and then with fat or honey for the spirits of nature (or maybe rather local "genius loci"!?). Curiously, a table nearby read that it`s a Slavonic cult stone. Oh, yes; how Germans could execute such primitive cult activities!? But back home, I`ve discovered that foundation stones of some medieval churches in Sweden are covered with similar holes.

"Eternal ideas" under work!? OK; I`m changing myself into an archaeologist for a while. Let`s count the number of holes. Does it fit to a possible number of "spirits of nature" or maybe a better fit we can get with the number of households around!? Kind of a hierarchy!?
An "omphalos" at the major tumulus - churches around (or stone circles!?) - individual households...

[kevin.b]

123hopp, THE MOON , twice a month ( whatever a month is ?) but more powerfully once a month( same as the menstul cycle ) alters gravity.
When this happens, it pulls all the WATER on the planet and alters the polarity.
I have experienced this, for several seconds, you get a standstill, then for seven minutes you find that the whole system reverses, where the flow entered the earth, it appears to come back out of the earth, REBIRTH.
If the deceased were percieved to have entered the earth at a particuler spot, and you placed a stone at that spot, when the flow appeared to come back out of the earth and through that stone, you may consider that the life force of the deceased was reborn, and contained in the egg shaped stone you had positioned at a precise spot.
You would treasure this stone.
Kevin

[123hopp]

Yes; I agree. It all begins with the personal "organic" experience, when you are following with your body and mind (in the meaning of the "upper" part of your soul )the rhythms of Nature. But it`s not easy. Our minds have been formed by thousands of years of official monotheistic religions. The meaning of our existence was to be a soldier of an Empire and these religions were instrumental in it. The paramount importance of an own special place for normal functioning of our psyche as a small part of the World Spirit (panentheistic Ptah), has been lost for many people under so long a time!! But there`s  a hope. Our modern Quest has been already started some time ago. And maybe this quotation from "The Sacred and the Profane" by Mircea Eliade, could assist you in your personal one:  -

Chapt.III - Sacredness of Nature and Cosmic Religion

"... Aside Cosmic Trees like the Ashtree Yggdrasil in German mythology, religion history knows of the Trees of Life (Mesopotamia), Trees of Immortality (Asia; Old Testament), Trees of Wisdom (Old Testament) and Trees of the Youth (Mesopotamia, Iran, India). The Tree is an expression of everything, which is real and sacred; of everything possessed by the gods of nature, which only some few humans can attain... That`s why the Trees with golden fruits and marvellous foliage, from the myths about Quests for Immortality and Eternal Youth,
- grow in far-away countries (in reality in the Otherworld)and are watched by monsters - gryphons, dragons ans monstrous snakes..."

So; good luck with your Quest and here`s my last advice. Look out for the Shadow of the Tree and try how it is to be its Fruit!!