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#3876 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 23 May 2006 - 16:06 in Megalithic forum

What I was really doing here in this Forum!?  Well, trying to assist the ARCHEOLOGICAL QUEST for MEANING with some broadening vistas, I suppose. Some examples.  - Show me the gods that were worshipped at Stonehenge or Avebury. Well, do you think people using those constructions  were just astronomers - as we know them today; only working with simpler tools and they didn`t care about any gods!? Yes; it`s so easy to forget that as recently as some 300 years ago, all social life and all branches of science in Europe were permeated by religion and all human activities were officially subjected to one prospect - getting a good score qualifying for heavenly afterlife.

Maybe a key to this discrepance lies in the expression of Brennus - the leader (280 BCE) of the great Celtic army, which ravaged Macedonia and penetrated Greece, at the sight of a first classic Greek temple : - " Are your gods so feeble that you can imprison them in those stone sculptures and silly houses!?" I know, "ethnographic parallels" to an archaeologist are like a red rag to a bull. But if you read Sir Frazer or Malinowski as before, you`d know that what we discussed here - Kevin and me, was something called "MANA".   Maybe there`s some deeper meaning in the fact that just in Polynesia, where the "megalithic impulse" survived nearly to this day, the notion of mana-forces is still very vivid in everyday life. I have in my library a book : "Kingship and Sacrifice. Ritual and Society in Ancient Hawaii" - Valerio Valeri, The University of Chicago Press, 1985, ISBN 0-226-84560-5, - where the problem of mana is adressed to in many places.

And if you look closer - comparative study of religions could be also helpful to an archaeologist - it`ll come out that so despised primitive animism of our ancestors is the basis of all most sublimated religions in the world. BTW It`s quite an interesting problem, when and why some parts of the worldwide mana-net underwent a process of personification into local "genius loci" and then alienation into more abstract gods.

Let it be the conclusion of my input into the current discussion for now.
Bye



#3874 The First European Pyramid?

Posted by 123hopp on 23 May 2006 - 10:34 in Megalithic forum

I`ve tried in some threads on this Forum, as I`ve promised to its "bosses", to review the issues of dowsing and folklore (shamanistic studies)as disciplines, which could possibly help an archaeologist to understand the world-view of the megalith creators or/and the "making" of megalithic landscapes.
There are so many books of different quality on those mystical themes that it`s really needed, I suppose, to get to the "roots" with those themes. So; I did what I could in this direction, without interfering with any "magical" taboos or interests of people making living from "magick", I suppose!?
Mystical unity with what!?...as a source of what!? Here maybe goes the boundary of personal integrity!?. I want only to round up the theme saying that it was probably an everyday unreflected activity those days and who knows - maybe in our days, too. It`s only that it`s hidden so deep in our subconscience!? Well, it`s maybe a price we pay for living in our overcrowded "ants`nests"!?



#3873 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 23 May 2006 - 08:19 in Megalithic forum

Yes; those curious mark spots outside churches. Here we have our Scandinavian runestones around churches but also quite anonymous low "directional" stone plates. In Greece, I`ve noticed anonymous heaps of rubble outside chapels, which mark e.g. a point, where the "lance" of St.George penetrates the body of the yin-dragon.
Those many spirals inside churches. I admit, I haven`t attached much attention to them, as I`m really not a devotee of any artificial religion. My rule is : - Be a "prophet" for yourself or leave it. (I accept a comparative study of religions, of course)  But in context of planning households, I`ve used spirals to enhance mental abilities of the inhabitants, i.e. placing spots for doing schoolchildren`s homework or locating some innovative activities for adults.
I`ve met situations in some places, where people had their beds over such spirals with the result of very unsatisfactory sleep rest. Now, I`m already done with helping people in planning their households. At first I wondered why they were so ambivalent at letting me do this. Then it came out for me that I was really a pawn in a power game between a wife and her husband. Only one of them was really accepting my presence. Then I`ve discovered that it`s the underconscious Fate Game. Mean frequency of your presence at crucial spots in a household determines your life`s way both inside and on the outside...well, more or less.
A turning point in my attitude came really when I`ve got some reclamations because of people divorcing themselves. Apparently, my new layouts, which they had implemented, had used too many spots causing faster circulation in their "auras" and removal of hindrances in this circulation. Thus, blockades they`d  "constructed" in their auras after many years of male-female running-in - all of a sudden disappeared. It`s not funny. Well, in this way one only can learn where to stop, to not interfere with others`lives too much.
Now I`ve masted my yacht (Aphrodite 22 (feet); 500 kgs lead in balast; doing well against 16 sekundmeter) - just a skärgård sailing boat and am beginning a new sailing season with my son and grandson, starting this weekend. So; from now on I`ll frequent the Net not so intensely. Bye



#3870 The First European Pyramid?

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 18:13 in Megalithic forum

Well, isn`t this an exaggeration to treat some folkloristic studies as a Quest!? Hmm...you know, Laponic shamans don`t bother helping people coming from outside of their own "precinct". Why!? Because their psychic forces come from being "one" with their territories!! Now am I talking!?
And here`s from the cover of "Ecstasies" :
"Weaving early accounts of witchcraft - trial records, ecclesiastical tracts, folklore and popular iconography - into new and startling patterns, Carlo Ginzburg presents in Ecstasies compelling evidence of a hidden shamanistic culture that flourished across Europe and in England for thousands of years."
And then later :
"Ginzburg here partially rehabilitates an older point of view, that the witch-cult represented a survival of ancient mysteries and the practice of shamanistic ceremonies forbidden by official Catholocism...It is a work of uncompromising scholarship and erudition, but it is not intended for a scholar alone.It is also a rich tapestry of anecdote and incident, a chamber of horrors, curiosity shop and medieval bestiary in one."
Which shamanistic sub-formations of Europe are contained in this book. Here they are:
- medieval followers of Diana, Herodias, Bensozia, Madame Horiente, Perchta and Holda, Queen of the Fairies from Sicily,
- good witches Benandanti from Friuli
- werewolves an witches from Livonia (Estland under Swedish rule)in their own narratives about "combats in ecstasy" for the fertility potential for their respective territories in a year to come,
- Rumanian calusari,
- "zduhaci" of BOSNIA, HERZEGOVINA and Montenegro,
- taltos of Hungary, etc.
Ginzburg analyzes Eurasian conjectures and comes to a conclusion that European witches constitute a branch of Euroasiatic shamanism.
And at the last, he discusses broadly the survivals of shamanic traditions, that could be discerned within Greek mythology.  

Now, I suppose, I`ve answered to your all questions, Pema!?
And this "pyramid" in Bosnia. To avoid accusations of hijacking the thread, I should probably maintain that it`s really a kind of a Blocksberg, where Bosnian "zduhaci" used to hold their sabbaths!? But I really don`t know...



#3869 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 17:24 in Megalithic forum

Yes, Kevin.A very complex image around those places, indeed. But I was trying to specify for Peregrine a start point to his own experimentation. For a beginner, elimination of most of those details is crucial. He is about to experience his first contact with one dowsable line and - my proposition, yin- and yang- quality spaces.
OK. Very, very clever. These words I`ve used once, when analyzing plans of medieval towns vs. castles laying aside, situations of princely manors with respect to their subject adobes and - especially - space layouts of castles, which were built by Teutonic Order and Johannites, when back in Europe from the Holy Land.
But such details call rather for a personal chat at a bottle of retsina; or was it red wine for you!?



#3867 The First European Pyramid?

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 13:30 in Megalithic forum

It`s not so easy, Pema. As in the case of dowsing, it`s a personal quest you are starting or not. The real meaning of those texts comes out first to light, when taking them back to the space, wherefrom they`ve once come. But in the process, you`ll become part of the spiritual pattern of a specific countryside and it`ll be hardly possible afterwards to share meaningful insights with anybody from the outside. Anyway, if you want - you can take up the end of this Ariadne`s thread at the

Stiftung Martin-Opitz-Bibliothek
Berliner Platz 5
44 623 Herne
www.martin - opitz -bibliothek.de

They have ambition of gathering all folkloric materials on the "Ostelbisches Raum" of former Deutsches Reich. "Area behind the Elbe river" is the hint at the domination of rural landscapes, which begins to the East of the river. But there`s nothing "ready-to-digest" in their materials. What you need at the very first is perhaps a "filter of meaning". What is this!? Well; say, you are living in this countryside and at some point you are starting to wonder what is "it", what`s lacking around. In the process of looking for "it ", you are getting the next clue.



#3864 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 09:15 in Megalithic forum

And still my comment on 50-lines`crossing at Glastonbury. I`ve found those elliptoic "cages", as if emanating from a point, being equivalents to my older concept of interwoven "stars" or Kevin`s synchronized cog-wheels. But if we take into consideration that they are of differentiated sizes (c.f. my "cage" of 10 m diameter at Odry), a problem emerges.

To be honest to oneself, a dowser should go around a central point in a widening spiral. At distances of ca 20-30 m (!?) along a diameter (as for Glastonbury), he should repeat his counting. Only then a dowser can see, how many of the lines in this ellipsoid have gone upwards and back to the centerpoint. Ideally, he could establish in this way the existence of long-distance paths radiating out to other major centres from such a "cage" or cog-wheel. And then you are following those major paths across mountains and sees... Yes, it`s a Quest.

But back to the drawing of dowsable lines in a typical stone circle, requested by Peregrine. From my practice comes out that they were constructed against backgrounds of any "net" fragments of a circular symmetry.  I agree with Kevin, when he says - first find an old church and try to dowse its centerline. I would add, - then try to feel the difference between yin and yang side of this centerline. You know; in medieval churches women were frequently seated at the left side while men at the rightside of the centerline. In this way they were maybe reassured in their respective roles!?



#3863 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 08:38 in Megalithic forum

P.S. to Kevin
This humorous "half-levitation" of mine is known as occuring at some standing stones. It`s a feeling like your one leg is suddenly being pulled up or you`re just as if falling on your back. So; in the context of uncomplicated linear series this feeling is slightly different. Imagine for yourself a pipeline of a large diameter. When crossing it, you are as if first falling on your back against a concave wall of a pipe. And then, when ending the 9-package, you are as if falling forward against identical concave pipewall. One step forward and this feeling disappears.



#3862 Stone Carved Bowls

Posted by 123hopp on 22 May 2006 - 07:47 in Megalithic forum

Your vision is very illuminating, Kevin. Yes, this entrance to the Underworld sounds convincing but should perhaps be corroborated by more inspections!? And is it true that there are barrows where only e.g. legs are found and in another say elbows or pelvises!? As mythical imagination of our forefathers was mostly connected to some physical or nearly physical objects; I wonder if we are dealing here with a consequent custom of following a correspondence between the parts of a land and part of the body of the Primaeval Giant!? This concept is used in Vedic dowsing (parts of the Purusha`s body) and in the Chinese traditions (P`anku). And we`ve got Ymir, of course; in Nordic lore.



#3853 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 21 May 2006 - 18:37 in Megalithic forum

OK, just joking, Peregrine. But as you see from our discussion, it`s a kind of a quest and being humble, ready for revision of your opinion
any time, and setting a proper attitude for yourself is of prime importance. Or in other words;  answer from this dowsable invisible template - both for megalith structures and legends, depends heavily on the question you are formulating for yourself.



#3849 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 21 May 2006 - 17:05 in Megalithic forum

OK. I was also perceiving those paths as packages of nine lines. But then I`ve discerned an additional cover, which gave me a feling of a "half-levitation", ha, ha. So, it was 9+2 =11 (a "new beginning" in numerology). Then, I`ve found double paths, so it was : 1+9+1+9+1= 21.
After I`ve started my regional investigations, those paths became as if divided in some other more irregular a way. It`s weird. I`ll go out to check where they`re gone!?
Aha; and Peregrine is not ready yet for an Arthurian Quest!?



#3847 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 21 May 2006 - 15:44 in Megalithic forum

We`ve entered the dowsing area from another directions, Kevin. But, as you say, there`s always a part of our experiences, which coincides. Your thin 1 inch lines I`ve observed last year at one Gothic cemetery (Odry; II c. BCE)) with many stone circles down in Pommern (Poland). Aside 5 stone circles, with layouts comprising nearly equal breadths of yin- and yang-  regional paths (my name for more than 10 m wide ones), coming from different directions, there was an "entrance to Hades", coinciding with a "hellish" little pond. On top of this I`ve discerned a little "cage" made of those thin lines of yours, spreading over ca 10 metres`diameter. It was a small labyrinth, overgrown with grass and barely visible. Stones were very small and paths so narrow that they were surely not meant to tread along. There was an old lady sitting in the "cage", who with the help of Chinese bagua compass traced a place, which should help for her sick pelvis.

I`m not analyzing such places with mathematical minuteness, rather paying attention to overall structure and connections with broader environment, e.g. "holy mountains", which are spread at distances of ca 60 km all over the land.(As if coming down from the ley concept to a little lower level) Otherwise, minute details would overcome me and I couldn`t control the inflow of information. Thus, I consider the problem of putting forth a Question to a Place as a crucial one.  

And here we are back at patterns discussed previously with Peregrine. Why there are several places in Celtic lands, which are covered alternatively by the Arthur stories!? Were those stories really a pattern used to identify special places in a spiritual landscape!? Last year I`ve found an enigmatic note somewhere that around abbey of Sion in Switzerland there are many places with names coinciding with Arthur`s romances. So; there`s my proposition for Peregrine. Take Arthurian romances back to the eastern border of Brittany, where the Wood of Broceliande is supposed to be found. When you`ve identified some of those legendary places and found megaliths or other
structures coinciding with those stories, I`ll help you further with building up of your personal insights as for dowsing the old legendary places.



#3845 Stone Circles

Posted by 123hopp on 21 May 2006 - 14:20 in Megalithic forum

Wait a minute; guys. In my dowsing style, I`m living mostly with broad paths not lines. A core of yin or yang zone, which has still meaning for humans, has in my system about 60 metres in breadth. And breadth of the whole yin- or yang- dominated zone is around 600 m. They are spaced apart by a "mixed" zone, where yin and yang are more or less in an equilibrium. Once every 6 km, yang zone has 3 times thicker core and is bordered by two yin-zones with two times thicker cores. I`m talking here only about one of 8 directions (two crosses or nets), but accidentally 16 directions (four crosses or nets) are needed to be considered, when talking about a special place.

How do a "special" place comes into living within those more or less regularly interwoven paths!? There are many sources of them. Firstly, a yang path - coming into contact with a yin path, undergoes several distortions. It`s "flattened" (forced back) and forms several vortexes in those four quarters of a crossing. But a thinner yang path (closer to Kevin`s 1 inch) can penetrate a yin zone (I mean a broader path) forming a point of "penetration", from which several thinner yin- lines radiate around. As I`ve seen in Greece, chapels of St.George piercing a dragon were frequently placed straddling such yang- "lance". And those thinner radiating lines were sometimes personified as helping spiritual entities (daughter-nymphs). If you encounter a chapel of 7 she-helpers, you`ll know, what to think about them.

But much more basic irregularities in the net occur, where major yin-zones of those 2 or 4 nets coincide. A hero with a vulnerable heel, leg-calf or thigh should take care in those places. But if you want to marry an underground princess and bring fertility home to your community, go and dive in!! You see, Peregrine; every dowser has his own system of connotations and pays attention to different aspects of the nets. Following a drawing made by others can hamper your personal sensibility, which is to be built up under confrontations with "living" special places.

But of course; why not start with a hypothetical drawing. Then you`ll amend it along with results of your own experiments and after some three discarded hypotheses you`ll get at your own personal vision.



#3837 Neolithic Stone Balls

Posted by 123hopp on 20 May 2006 - 21:45 in Megalithic forum

But this catalogue is not mentioned on the google.com among Marshall D. sites. Wonder if you have a more detailed address!? Otherwise; are you trying to suggest your stones have signs of a primitive writing or symbols used in divining on them!? There were those controversial findings in Glozel, France, under 1920ties - still discussed on the net. And I remember some stones from Brittany, painted with symbols and left at a kind of cursus!?



#3834 Neolithic Stone Balls

Posted by 123hopp on 20 May 2006 - 17:59 in Megalithic forum

What decoration!? What I can see are grooves, needed for stabilizing of a string looped around a ball!!



#3830 Megalithic Ideas

Posted by 123hopp on 20 May 2006 - 10:20 in Megalithic forum

Yes; I agree. It all begins with the personal "organic" experience, when you are following with your body and mind (in the meaning of the "upper" part of your soul )the rhythms of Nature. But it`s not easy. Our minds have been formed by thousands of years of official monotheistic religions. The meaning of our existence was to be a soldier of an Empire and these religions were instrumental in it. The paramount importance of an own special place for normal functioning of our psyche as a small part of the World Spirit (panentheistic Ptah), has been lost for many people under so long a time!! But there`s  a hope. Our modern Quest has been already started some time ago. And maybe this quotation from "The Sacred and the Profane" by Mircea Eliade, could assist you in your personal one:  -

Chapt.III - Sacredness of Nature and Cosmic Religion

"... Aside Cosmic Trees like the Ashtree Yggdrasil in German mythology, religion history knows of the Trees of Life (Mesopotamia), Trees of Immortality (Asia; Old Testament), Trees of Wisdom (Old Testament) and Trees of the Youth (Mesopotamia, Iran, India). The Tree is an expression of everything, which is real and sacred; of everything possessed by the gods of nature, which only some few humans can attain... That`s why the Trees with golden fruits and marvellous foliage, from the myths about Quests for Immortality and Eternal Youth,
- grow in far-away countries (in reality in the Otherworld)and are watched by monsters - gryphons, dragons ans monstrous snakes..."

So; good luck with your Quest and here`s my last advice. Look out for the Shadow of the Tree and try how it is to be its Fruit!!



#3825 The First European Pyramid?

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 22:21 in Megalithic forum

P.S. I must amend my words a bit. What the rural "wise people" really did was rather accompanying the workings of the forces of nature and enhancing them. And they really formed a closed group of initiates highly valued by their compatriots in better times. I`m not fond of any modern rootless ritualistic reconstructions of this culture. If you want to read something competent - and of literary value at the same time, try to look into :

Carlo Ginzburg - "Ecstasies. Deciphering the Witches`Sabbath" , The University of Chicago Press, 2004; ISBN 0-226-29693-8



#3824 Neolithic Stone Balls

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 22:10 in Megalithic forum

I`ve eliminated great caliber artillery used by any siege, as your Scottish balls were found in the fields. Therefore, only an exemplary field battle plus relevant sizes from the Historical Museum in Stockholm were quoted. Now, the sizes of balls from Gotland maybe exceed any artillery caliber!?



#3822 The First European Pyramid?

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 18:40 in Megalithic forum

Well, I agree with Stonecarver that massiveness of a stone structure is not a sign of a subtle mind. What about comparison between lyre of Apollo (or his bow) and the club of Herakles!? Display of power through an imposing artificial structure is a first thought. And here not only Egyptian pyramids but also Stonehenge and Avebury are examples. Some theocratic dynasts motivated crowds of subjects to construct objects symbolizing their God-granted power!? Worldly power comes ultimately from guarding sacred places - central for  inhabited territories. There were many cases of such developments. So; if in Bosnia there are pyramids; a large cultivated area around could be expected.

And those "lost civilizations" of Kevin. Yes, we`ve lost our previous civilization (or cultural formation) in Europe as recently as the Age of Enlightment. Before, illiterates were in majority among European societies. And they had their own oral culture and inherited ways of life, reaching back in some cases to the time of first neolithic agriculturalists. Warlords came and went; taxes were paid to alien masters in their manors but local people were living on as usual. Do you know that christianizing of a country in Central and Northern Europe (e.g. Poland, Russia, Scandinavia)was really a case of joining the all-European Christian jet-set by ruling pagan elites!? Some chapels were constructed in major castles, king`s representatitives baptized; major trade centres invaded with new Christian buildings and customs but people in the countryside were left in peace. As late as XVII c. the eastern areas of Polish Commonwealth (today`s Belarus) were treated by the catholic church as pagan areas, missionaries sent there and martyred by the locals.

Thanks to the ideas of Goethe and Herder - as well as brothers Grimm, parts of the oral traditions of the western European Lowlands (largely censored) has been saved for posteriority. It`s less known that much more complete materials has been registered by teachers in rural areas of the eastern part of Germany. There are detailed topographical descriptions of a multitude of sacred places used by local witches, their ceremonies, ways of initiation and their world of beliefs - which haven`t been superseded by templates forced through inquisitors on their minds during processes. How it was possible!? Simply, those teachers interviewed witches`grandchildren. First peasant generation that went to countryside schools laughed at those thousands-of-years traditions. But grandchildren listened happily to the narratives, which that time could be first disclosed to the public because of the previous natural disintegration of taboos surrounding witches`activity, i.e. local cults of forces of Nature.

My interest for dowsing  has been awakened when studying those archive materials in Germany.



#3816 Megalithic Ideas

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 11:23 in Megalithic forum

No offence, Stonecarver. It was once upon a time, when I was making use of the Niedersächsische Landesbibliothek in Göttingen and living at student`s  campus nearby Max Planck`s Institut down there. My neighbour - a "doktorand"( I don`t know how it`s called in your ivory towers!?) - used to make two pauses of 30 minutes a day. We used to meet at the yard and he usually ended our discussions with something like : "I wonder how far Yakimoto down in X  Institute in Tokyo advanced his work during this 30 minutes!?"
I was trying to arrange for a common excursion to this place, where legendary Tings (Tagungen) of Goths were once located. All in vain.
A pity. We really need a living experience of a "special" place in our lives, to get a drive forward in our profane activities.

And at the Tingsplatz, there was a big flat rounded stone - covered with small holes, standing upright. In local guides, it was described as a paleolithic remnant and holes should be filled now and then with fat or honey for the spirits of nature (or maybe rather local "genius loci"!?). Curiously, a table nearby read that it`s a Slavonic cult stone. Oh, yes; how Germans could execute such primitive cult activities!? But back home, I`ve discovered that foundation stones of some medieval churches in Sweden are covered with similar holes.

"Eternal ideas" under work!? OK; I`m changing myself into an archaeologist for a while. Let`s count the number of holes. Does it fit to a possible number of "spirits of nature" or maybe a better fit we can get with the number of households around!? Kind of a hierarchy!?
An "omphalos" at the major tumulus - churches around (or stone circles!?) - individual households...



#3815 Megalithic Ideas

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 09:07 in Megalithic forum

As a male, I`m frequently wondering about the ways our ancestors incorporated the Moon into their symbolic thinking. As for the Sun - it`s simple; here comes a day  when sunrays are penetrating into a megalithic womb and a new mythical life cycle is started. But as for the Moon; it seems that it`s not enough with moonrays. A more physical presence of his on Earth is required, if the Moon`s influence is to be taken seriously into consideration!?

If I`m not considering to undergo initiation into mysteries of Hekate, what to do otherwise!? What do we have in Mircea Eliade in this genre!? Well; in his "Images and Symbols" there`s an essay " Notes on the symbolism of molluscs" with such chapters:
- The Moon and the Waters; Symbolism of Fecundity; Ritual functions of Shells, etc.
Then, in his "Myths, dreams and mysteries" there`s Chapt.VIII: " Mother Earth and cosmic hierogamies" and maybe I could find something on the role of the Moon in such parts like: - "Terra genetrix"; Underground womb - The "Embrions"; Labyrinths !? ..Hmm

Aaah; Stonecarver. You`ve nailed me to my physical place in the Universe; so let`s better look around. Aha; those enigmatic stone balls of Gotland, found in the fields...Maybe they deserve a closer look!? And as I`m not a scientist and not interested in watching if my collegues have made a half-step forward...I`ll leave this Moon theme as it is; I mean - suspensed in Aither!?



#3814 Neolithic Stone Balls

Posted by 123hopp on 19 May 2006 - 08:22 in Megalithic forum

I know; my approach based on "eternal ideas" is hard to bear. But just megalithic traditions illustrate that it`s a way of finding a meaning
and connection among different objects . On the other hand, similar objects could be used to convey different ideas in the course of history.
1. When I dived into Swedish collections, it came out that artillery projectiles of late Middle Ages were of the diameter between 3,7 and 9,3 cm!! ( Take the way "Axtorna 1565 - Historia - Artilleriet" on google.com)

2. In the Historical Museum, Stockholm, there are 3 or 4 types of stone balls - see   www.historiska.se/collections/mis/sok/resultat
They are undated (short."odat"); places where they were found and item Nos specified. Those with a cross on them are interesting to me. It seems that some of them belonged to some hand-mills!?

3. And now the biggest kind of stone balls. Take  www.sr.se/gotland/gotlandrunt/bara.stm
There are big stone balls found in the fields on the photo 11. Those people ask about information what`s this and what to do with them.

So; Stonecarver; another heap of stone balls without meaning!?
Good luck



#3811 Megalithic Ideas

Posted by 123hopp on 18 May 2006 - 21:43 in Megalithic forum

Can we talk about a Megalithic Era - as a term intercgangeable with Younger Stone Age or other similar ones!? I don`t think so. From my sources comes out that first complete megalithic structures popped out south of Sahara desert just after 7, 000 BCE. Next stop was North Africa and very soon they`ve found their way into...Labrador and further south in North America!? Oldest megaliths are grouped along the Atlantic shores. First European megalithic graves are dated to the Vth millenium BCE but their elements were known much earlier. A circle embodying the principle  of mandala with marked centrum and four cardinal directions is reaching back to the Middle Paleolithic.
Sacred vertical markers (wooden poles) were known in Younger Paleolithic. Old stone stelai with a "vulva" mark were known already in pre-megalithic Europe...
Dates for Asian countries are much later and "megalithic impulse"- coming from the West, lingered on in Oceania until quite recently. "Ex occidente lux" - as some writers maintain.
In this situation, talking about "megalithic ideas" - ever present in the history of mankind, rather than of a historical megalithic era, has its sense!? What do you think!?



#3810 Megalithic Ideas

Posted by 123hopp on 18 May 2006 - 21:11 in Megalithic forum

But my favourite megalithic(!?)survival  within Greek mythology is MEDOUSA. Its role as an apotrophaic emblem is well known (e.g. at the Artemis temple in Korkyra). She watched probably also over mysteries of Athena in Athens, from the Virgin`s shield. But Medousa`s faculty of changing people into stones points more obviously to connections with the megalithic ideology.
Well; European megalithic folklore has it that menhirs or circle stones are in a fact lithified people. And reasons for that were mostly some
transgressions of cult prescriptions.
In Celtic countries though, narratives involving stones as containers for souls awaiting reincarnation are also known. If so; could we form a hypothese that Medousa ( Ruleress!?) played once a major role both as a giver and a taker of life in Mediterranean megalithic traditions!?
I wonder if a similar spiritual entity can be found in Irish legends and folklore!? Alas, I know but a little about this tradition. So; could you help me out!?
Thanks in advance



#3809 Neolithic Stone Balls

Posted by 123hopp on 18 May 2006 - 20:49 in Megalithic forum

Ha, Stonecarver. I`ve seen those carvings on your Scottish stone balls and I can assure you that here in Sweden we`ve got nothing of the kind!! I`ve met some notes about those artillery projectiles scanning Swedish net under "stenklot" and that`s it. Alas; nothing unusual.
But as for your Scottish  carved stone balls; some of them remind me of the many-breasted (!?) Artemis of Ephesos. Is there any chance they`ve been used to enhance fertility!? I kind of remember a discussion some years ago about small figurines of those Willendorff-type Venuses found sometimes in the contexts of first neolithic field areas on the continent. Some of your balls look could be an abstract symbol of this lady`s qualities!?
Just probing...