[Peregrine]

Hi all,
I'm new to this forum and the reason I joined is that seems a splendid way to exchange information and in the mean time learn a lot about our ancient legacy.
For a long time, I've been interested in the Pictish stones and I am looking for as much info as possible on a standing stone called Dyce-2.
As far as I know, this particular stone was situated near the village of Dyce, some miles north-west of Aberdeen, Scotland.
The thing I am particularly interested in are the engravings of this stone.
The only thing at hand at the moment is an old drawing of the stone, but I am not at all sure whether this drawing is accurate.
The last thing I've heard about this stone is that it was moved to an unknown location.
This is where I need your help,
Does anyone know about this stone, knows exactly what it depicts or knows its present whereabouts ?
I really hope you can help.

All best, Peregrine.

[FourWinds]

Try these

http://www.garioch.d...co.uk/dyce2.jpg

http://www.garioch.d...co.uk/dyce1.jpg

[yogro]

The Picts were stone defilers, any carving by a Pict ain't worth wasting your time on. The photos are reproductions of original Neolithic markings which predate these copies by 2-4000 years

[Peregrine]

Hi Fourwinds an Yogro,

Thanks Fourwinds for the links you provided, this is precisely what I was looking for.
The picture of Dyce-2 is great and it's clear now that the drawing of this stone that I have is a quite inaccurate representation of the original stone.

Thanks Yogro for your warning that not everything depicted on these stones stems from the neolithic era.
Can you elaborate on this subject a bit more, please ?

The exact thing that interests me in the Pictish stones is the ever recurrent theme inscribed on them.
Especially the crescent with V-rod, double-discs whit reversed Z-rod, the so-called handmirrors and the so-called comb have my special interest.
I believe these to be extremely strong and ancient symbols and I may have an inkling of their possible meaning.
I am still gathering more information, though.

Again, thanks for your replies.

All best, Peregrine.

[FourWinds]

yogro, on 13 March 2006, 2:03, said:

The Picts were stone defilers, any carving by a Pict ain't worth wasting your time on. The photos are reproductions of original Neolithic markings which predate these copies by 2-4000 years

Quote

The Picts were stone defilers, any carving by a Pict ain't worth wasting your time on. The photos are reproductions of original Neolithic markings which predate these copies by 2-4000 years

What?

[Peregrine]

Yes yogro, please elaborate on your statement that Picts were stone defilers, as you call them.
I've never heard of this before.

With reference to the picture of Dyce-2, which FourWinds so kindly provided, I have noticed the following :

In the right-hand centre of the stone we see a disc with a rectangular shape attached to it on it's lower side.
Inside this disc is a horse-shoe shape depicted.
This reminds me of the lay-out of Stonehenge and I wonder whether this engraving is a stylized representation of this place. (circular enclosure with trilithons arranged in horse-shoe shape within and an avenue (rectangle)).
I have not seen such depiction on any other Pictish stone, only on Dyce 2
On the lower right-hand side of Dyce2 we see this pattern repeated in a double and mirrored way.
Right through this image goes the reversed Z-rod.
If we atribute the same astronomical meaning to these images as we do to, let's say, Stonehenge, or any other henge, this would add to the significance of these stones in an enormous way.
If for instance Stonehenge represents a specific and fixed point in our time/space continuum (summer-/winter- solstice), these double discs with Z-rod may have a very special meaning.
The Z-rod suggests mirroring or reversal, but reversal of what ?
Does it speak of the reversal of the polarity of our earth's axis ?
An event of this order of magnitude would surely have destroyed all previously established parameters and re-orientation after such an event would have been necessary.
Were the ancient monuments erected to suit this purpose, i.e. the re-orientation and establishing of new parameters in an again gradually stabilising world ?

Perhaps I'm just rambling here, but I believe we need to look at the depictions on these ancient stones with 'new eyes' instead of just regarding them as decorative art.

The crescent with V-rod and the double discs with Z-rod must have had great meaning to those who designed these symbols in a very remote past.
They must be very significant because they were repeated over and over again.

What do you think ?

All best, Peregrine.

[kevin.b]

Peregrine,
Every month without fail, there is a total reversal of the earths energy, local to where you are as the moon passes at the far side of the earth, away from the sun.
If you have two rods in your hands at this moment in time, and you are detecting the flow of what I consider is plasma,
my two rods face in the direction of this flow, but suddenly they stop working and detect nothing, standstill, then seconds later, they spin around and point in the opposite direction, for aprox 7 minutes, then they again stop detecting, seconds later they spin back to their origonal direction.
Gravity is altered at this moment, I can feel it, it is one of the most amazing things I have ever experienced and I feel totally humbled to be able to detect this.
I consider this was the most important moment in ancient mans life, when life appeared to come back out of the mother earth , where , at the point it spirals into the earth, it had seemingly gone for all the rest of the month, rebirth.
Where the energy spirals into the earth is in the long barrows, now most of these sites have a norman church stuck on top of them.
I consider the long barrows were nothing to do with actual burial, just as the churchs of now are not, but we place the coffin centre of the aisle in our church?
K.

[Peregrine]

Hi Kevin.B ,
I see that dowsing is a real passion of yours.
I also think that when you experience the effects you describe at that particular time of the month, this must make a deep impression on you.
Do you happen to know if there is some scientific literature available on this specific effect ?
I agree with you that ancient man was probably far more sensitive to these things than the average modern person.
Also on the subject of the possible function of long barrows, I must agree with you.
If you look at these structures as some sort of membranes or amplifiers for telluric emanations/vibrations, one can imagine the reverence that was attributed to these places.
In my view, the later gothic cathedrals may have served the same purpose for those "in the know ", if you ask me.
I once read somewhere that the circular Templar churches (reminiscent of henges), were also especially designed for this, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

Remains for me to congratulate you with this rare ability to detect these energy flows and to thank you for your input.

All best, Peregrine.

[kevin.b]

Peregrine, resonance, sound are all interlocked with this force.
If you construct to devine measure, and then raise the walls to achieve perfect resonance, with all octaves, and this will depend on the floor area, how high you have to go, hence gothic architecture.
With the correct resonance, ohmmmmmm, you would be able to achieve almost a shuddering of the fabric.
I consider that Abbot Suger was the person who last fully understood all of this, he ran France, and translated books in the kings chapel, that were from the greeks, he was able then to forge ahead with the building of the gothic churchs, built to these fabulous measurments, we are fortunate in England to have so many, and I can go around them, and work out how they achieved this amazing accurasy, it is so simple, so simple that most doubt me, but the measuring lines and circles ( polygons ) are there if you can " see " them, I am truly blessed and can measure them to perfection, I will show this to all, for free, as it is meant to be.
We need to go back , to go forward, and buried in sites like this, the portal and TMA, are the clues, left to us by people who are now just dust, but not forgotten, not quite.
K.

[yogro]

You guys need to do some research. How about a course in Archaeoastronomy so that you can see this stuff with 'new eyes. . Ref Clive Ruggles. Leicester University.

Take a look at cup and circle marks. Found all over the place in Scotland. The Picts took these stones symbols-marks and adapted them for their own poiposes. Picts date100ad. on. the symbols you are getting excited about are found I repeat 2-4000 years before.

Kevin B . You are what you eat.

[kevin.b]

Yogro, tonight I ate two big potatoes, cooked in our rayburn, filled with homemade salad dressing, and some left over roast beef.
So What am I?
Oh , washed down with a glass of Merlot, from la belle France.
Kevin

[yogro]

Not a vegetarian tee totaller?

[kevin.b]

Yogro, Where are you from?
Tea, In England is spelt tea, not tee.
You talk about the pictish stones as if you know them well
I have just been reading about a pictish graveslab in the meigle museum in perthshire that is described as depicting four figures in a swastica fashion, do you know this , and have you any comments about the swastika emblem with regards to this time
K.

[FourWinds]

yogro, on 14 March 2006, 23:36, said:

You guys need to do some research. How about a course in Archaeoastronomy so that you can see this stuff with 'new eyes. . Ref Clive Ruggles. Leicester University.

Take a look at cup and circle marks. Found all over the place in Scotland. The Picts took these stones symbols-marks and adapted them for their own poiposes. Picts date100ad. on. the symbols you are getting excited about are found I repeat 2-4000 years before.

Kevin B . You are what you eat.

What proven relationship is there between British rock art, Pictish stones and Archaeoastronomy?

The Picts weren't mentioned by the Romans until 296, but they were probably around much earlier. Try reading TC Lethbridges The Painted Men. They united with the Scotts in 843.

Cup and ring marks are found all over the British Isles and Iberia. Not many designs on them resemble z-rods, combs and mirrors.

[Peregrine]

Hi all,
With regards to the Picts and their V- and Z-rods, I would like to ask the following :

Who exactly were the People we hold responsible for carving these extraordinary and clearly non-Celtic symbols on the so-called Pictish Stones?

Apart from the name Pictii (Painted Ones), which was given to them by the Romans during their conquest and occupation of the British Isles, not much is really known about their origins. A written account we have for this name is from the Roman orator Eumenius in 297 AD where he refers to the Britons as 'already being accustomed to the Pictii and the Hiberni as enemies'. Early Irish myth though gives 'Cruithne' as the ancestor of the Pictish People. According to this myth, the seven sons of Cruithne, an Irish King, gave their names to the seven provinces or divisions of the Pictish Kingdom.

In 731 AD, Bede reported that the Picts were of Scythian origin and that upon occupying the North of Britain, they held to a matrilineage with regard to their list of Kings. Several scolars and investigators have tried to find the true origins of the Picts through language, racial features, place-names, Pagan religion, etc.. It is proposed that the Pictish language is a remnant of the languages prevalent in Europe before the spread of the Indo-European language family and that there could be a relationship with Basque and perhaps even with Etruscan. None of the mentioned approaches however seem conclusive and as such leave a lot of room for speculation as to the 'way of the Picts'.

Taking the above into consideration, there is not much that we really know about the origin of the Pictish People. The only thing that we can be reasonably sure of is that they were descendants of an ancient People that lived in the British Isles, long before the Celts arrived here in the 6th - 4th century BC and drove the original inhabitants away or took dominion over the land. In historical times we only find them in Scotland, north of the Clyde and we see their power slowly decline until, with the arrival of Kenneth MacAlpin, they finally vanished in the mid- to late 9th century AD. The only tangible legacy they have left us is their art, carved over and over again in the large and impressive standing Stones of Scotland.

These enigmatic symbols must have been of great significance to them and were perhaps their only remaining link with their past and with their origin and identity. And perhaps these extraordinary strong symbols are the last evidence of an ancient tradition of storing knowledge about an astronomical phenomenon in stone. It seems not unlikely that, at the time when these slabs of stone were carved, the true meaning of these Pictish symbols was already lost to those who incorporated them in the designs on the surfaces of these Stones and that, at best, they only still expressed the ethnic identity of the area. If their far ancestors indeed lived all over the British Isles, these images on the Pictish Stones might even stand in a close relationship to the many megalithic structures that are found here and as such can have a clear astronomical meaning.

It is not to be expected that we will ever find out who the Pictish People really were, what exactly their believes were or what they called themselves, but perhaps and through their symbolism we can get a glance at how they may have interpreted the movements of the stars in the night sky. All we can come up with is of course only speculation or at best a theory but the magnificent symbols deserve in my opinion a serious attempt of re-interpretation. The only official comment to the enigmatic V- and Z- rods that I know of is : "Pictish rods, the meaning of which is unknown". A statement like : "Pictish Rods, the meaning of which is unknown" can never be enough or good enough, in my opinion. So why wouldn't we take a closer look at these Pictish Stones and see what relationship the images on them may have with ancient British rock art or archeoastronomy ?

What do you think ?

Best, Peregrine.